Subject: SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 13 2008 @ 05:55 PM
By: Tardis-Knight

Content:

There will be spoilers in this thread....



Well given that to date I think this series has been pretty strong I thought that was absolute junk.



He hasn't posted yet, but the chances are I'm with CyberColin. Smile



I didn’t always think that – about 15 minutes in I actually started to warm to it, and fundamentally I liked the idea of Adam, but whatever the rest of the episode may or may not have done for me, the boardroom scene, with Reverend Jack Harkness walking round the table and one by one saving them all from themselves was just ridiculous. It actually reminded me of that pathetic Michael Jackson performance at the Brits a few years ago, that quite justifiably got Jarvis Cocker’s goat. It was that bad and cheesy.



The stuff about Jack’s background I really enjoyed; albeit if you’re going to get someone to play child Jack, getting someone who at least looks slightly similar and would have an outside chance of growing up to look like him would be nice (although given he apparently grew up to be the (spoiler in white) Face Of Boe I guess it wasn’t so out of the question).



Re the rest of them; A sex mad murderous Ianto, a cleavage-heavy slingbacked vixen version of Tosh, and a totally out of it Gwen I could live with. But Owen as Peter Parker was beyond me!



I thought the bed scene with Tosh and Adam was a bit much - not the sexual side of it, but the dialogue. It reminded me of about half a dozen different Meat Loaf songs (will you love me forever/I bet you say that to all the boys etc).



I’m quite liking Rhys this time around – and I wouldn’t have really thought that possible after last years series.



The first let down of the series for me. And yet I thought the immediately following episode 6 was a brilliant one...........



Replies:

SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 13 2008 @ 07:09 PM
By: Linquel

Content:

I haven't read this thread, as I haven't seen the ep yet. But I had one quick question. My source for Torchwood has both ep. 5 (ADAM) listed as well as ep. 6 (Reset). Did they show two episodes back to back or something?


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 13 2008 @ 07:10 PM
By: Tardis-Knight

Content:

Yep. Exactly that.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 14 2008 @ 12:25 AM
By: merlin_mccarley

Content:


Wow, sorry to say Tardis-Knight that I could not dissagree with you more. The boardroom scene was a tad OTT but the characters got to be something else. And FINALLY Ianto has some scenes that show that Gareth David-Lloyd is not just comic reilief. Meat had some streangths (CGI was NOT one of them) and this continues the trend IMO of a good series. I seem to be in the minority so far but Meat and Adam are the strongest of this series (for me) so far. And though they did have 2 diffrent episides tonight, they aired on diffrent stations.

Cheers,
Mike


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 14 2008 @ 02:17 AM
By: tarashnat

Content:


This was actually an episode with a sci-fi concept and explored the ramifications of said concept. Though the series still caters to the sex and violence demographic, we are getting some cerebral stuff thrown in as well in series two. This one was definitely a plot-lite character piece, but we got to see different sides to the characters.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 14 2008 @ 03:48 AM
By: Tardis-Knight

Content:

[QUOTE BY= merlin_mccarley]
Wow, sorry to say Tardis-Knight that I could not dissagree with you more. [/QUOTE]

Politely done, but no apology required!

I described it as absolute junk - and if I'm honest, with hindsight I think that's too harsh.

Compared to the episodes that came before this one, and certainly compared to the one that immediately followed it, I just don't think Adam stands up that well.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 14 2008 @ 04:35 AM
By: Tin Dog Podcast

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Linquel] I haven't read this thread, as I haven't seen the ep yet. But I had one quick question. My source for Torchwood has both ep. 5 (ADAM) listed as well as ep. 6 (Reset). Did they show two episodes back to back or something?[/QUOTE]

sort of

bbc2 had Adam and bbc3 had Martha.. i mean RESET...

in order to not be coloured by more than one show ive only watched Adam... so that I can do one podcast at a time.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 14 2008 @ 08:38 AM
By: cybercolin

Content:

I liked this episode but I liked Reset even more!

Anyway, here's my review of 'Adsm'

Blog

I’m racking my brains to try to find an insult for this episode but I can’t – it was marvellous! That’s right, I loved it! Even though I wanted to smash Adam’s face in, I thought it was a thoroughly, well written and acted episode.

A bloke called ‘Adam’ (the ‘ginger infiltrator’) gets into Torchwood and modifies the memories of the team to make them think he’s been there for a year. He even ‘memory rape’s’ Tosh (can I use that term? Oh sod it, I just did!) We see Jack’s past, growing up on what looked like Blackpool beach but without the blood, guts and sewage. We learn ‘Gray’ (or Grey?) is Jack’s younger brother and was ‘lost’ when Jack’s homeland was attacked by an ‘unidentified aliens’.

Gwen forgets all about Rhys and nearly destroys the whole show by almost shooting him. You can’t afford to get rid of your best actors, love! Owen is a likeable geek, who is deeply in love with Tosh, who has turned into a confident er woman. Thankfully, she is put in her place later, like all women should be!*

Ianto thinks he’s murderer and to be fair it suits him more than the ‘comic’ role he’s been playing this series. Eventfully Jack susses the ginger infiltrator and before you know it, everyone’s ‘doing pills’ (well its Retcon but….) and Adam is fading away, much like the ‘career’ of Britney Spears.

Top episode, I’m not giving it full marks, because I have faith that there’ll be an episode of ‘End of Days’ portions!

9/10

* If this will get no ladies writing in, nothing will!

Next Week: I forget that I’ve seen the next episode – Reset and watch it again on BBC Two. Then I write another review and label it as ‘more shite than the contents of Pires Morgan’s mouth’. Or Bob the Builder, the bastard!


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 01:33 AM
By: Louis

Content:



I like this episode solely for the Captain Jack backstory. As for a creature existing entirely in the memories of others is a bit rubbish for me, but it served as a vehicle to uncover more about Captain Jack and his history, so I can look the other way on that aspect.

Cheers,
Louis


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 01:38 AM
By: Louis

Content:



Oh, and I thought I was being clever by transferring this episode to my iPhone so I can watch it on the flight over to LA so that I will be up to date on Torchwood while here at Gallifrey 2008. To my surprise, after the trailer for the next episode during the end credits the BBC voice over mentions that if you want to see the next episode is now on BBC Three!

Here I was flying somewhere across the country and there was no way to catch the err.. "red eye" to the UK to get the latest episode (I was literally flying the opposite direction).

So I haven't seen Reset yet. Perhaps if I have the time I can catch a "red eye" from my hotel room here in LA.

Cheers,
Louis


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 08:30 AM
By: seanhuxter

Content:

Strong episode in my opinion. What good Sci Fi tries to do is explore the human condition given the fact that it is only one option - that there are others.

This episode's theme - that we are only what we are because of our memories - is somehing that can't be explored as adequately outside the realm of Sci Fi. In this episode, memories can be altered, our own reality can be altered - and therefore it plays with just what we are at the very basic level.

And while some parts were a bit over the top, most of it wasn't. I loved Gwen forgetting Rhys. I loved Tosh's new-found confidence, but I find it impossible to believe Owen's change. Changing his memory will indeed make him think this was his life, but there are some behaviors that would not be altered just by altering memory.

Or are there? Is changing every aspect of your memory enough to change who you are? This episode says "A RESOUNDING YES!" and was quite intriguing.

I may be in the minority by not liking Jack's backstory here. I'm also a bit in disbelief that, knowing what this guy can do, Jack let him do it a second time. No way would Jack allow that, knowing Adam could simply re-write the past few hours and Jack would end up wondering why he's in a cell? Was it some practical joke? Some sexual bet? Sorry, Adam. I'll unlock it. Wow. If putting you in there was some kind of joke, I'm sorry, mate. Not sure what I was thinking. Anyway, let's go back upstairs and have a cup of tea...

It should never have happened.

But to me, a strong episode. Second to "Meat" for me.

(I still haven't watched "RESET", so I'll comment on that tomorrow.)

Sean.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 08:51 AM
By: Tin Dog Podcast

Content:




upload may not work just yet. as libsyn say there are issues

here


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 10:23 AM
By: Louis

Content:

[QUOTE BY= seanhuxter]...

Or are there? Is changing every aspect of your memory enough to change who you are? This episode says "A RESOUNDING YES!" and was quite intriguing.

...
[/QUOTE]


Yes. It reminded me of what the 5th Doctor once said about we are all the sum of our memories.

Cheers,
Louis


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 12:43 PM
By: Dalzo

Content:

Just thought I would let you guys know that the main concept of this episode (an alien infiltrates the team by implanting false memories and making them think they have been working with them for years) has been directly lifted from one of the Torchwood books called "Border Princes" by Dan Abnett. What made the book work a little better than the episode is that it is written in such a manner that if you knew nothing about the series and read the book you would take it for granted that James (as opposed to "Adam") was a main character instead of an imposter. Having said that, I enjoyed the episode but felt that (like a few episodes this series) it was trying too hard to evoke emotions out of the viewer (Jack dishing out the retcon drug, having his memories of his father taken away, Tosh losing Adam etc) and just over cooking it.

Looking forward to "Reset" though, as I was unable to watch it due to work!


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 12:53 PM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Dalzo] Just thought I would let you guys know that the main concept of this episode (an alien infiltrates the team by implanting false memories and making them think they have been working with them for years) has been directly lifted from one of the Torchwood books called "Border Princes" by Dan Abnett. What made the book work a little better than the episode is that it is written in such a manner that if you knew nothing about the series and read the book you would take it for granted that James (as opposed to "Adam") was a main character instead of an imposter. Having said that, I enjoyed the episode but felt that (like a few episodes this series) it was trying too hard to evoke emotions out of the viewer (Jack dishing out the retcon drug, having his memories of his father taken away, Tosh losing Adam etc) and just over cooking it.

Looking forward to "Reset" though, as I was unable to watch it due to work![/QUOTE]

Well that's strange as I thought - and you might agree later - that 'Reset' is very much like the plot of one of the books.

I'll not say more here but might quote this in that thread - which you may read after watching the episode,

Cheers, daveac


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 03:25 PM
By: TorchwoodPDX

Content:

When Jack handed out the pills, I found that scene all too weird.
I walked away feeling it had a heavy religious over tone that was just out of place. Jack walking around the room pulling the Sarek, share with me your pain….. (Star Trek V) and acting like the priest handing out communion wafers to his flock.
Well over the creepy point for me.

Other then that I liked the episode, it had that alternate reality feeling, the WHAT IF episode that you normally see on a Sci Fi show after the writers have build up the characters so the audience understands the change of behavior...... oh well.

The one thing I was really looking forward to after seeing the season opener was seeing the Jack and Ianto relationship grow and be something of meaning… have positive Gay relationship that was not all about casual sex, spray on libido, or Bisexual alien mind control intercourse. But no now we have Gwen and Jack secretly longing for each other and poor Ianto still Jack’s flavor of the month.

I think they did miss a great storyline by fixing Iantos bloodlust. Would have been great to have him killing and hiding the bodies behind the others for months, or even develop him into a super villain, one that has a complete understanding of Torchwood and can defeat them from within.

But I rattle on to much about Ianto, mostly because I fancy him! ☺


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 15 2008 @ 05:17 PM
By: seanhuxter

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Dalzo] ...
What made the book work a little better than the episode is that it is written in such a manner that if you knew nothing about the series and read the book you would take it for granted that James (as opposed to "Adam") was a main character instead of an imposter.[/QUOTE]

So did this episode. I haven't read the book, but this episode begins with Adam a good old bud from three years ago. Everyone's changed before the episode begins, so anyone just picking the show up at this episode wouldn't know the difference.

I thought that that was the right way to do it and they did it well.

Sean.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 16 2008 @ 12:38 AM
By: Linquel

Content:

I liked this one more than I usually like Torchwood, and I don't think it was just a case of my lowered expectations. It was interesting seeing the other characters in different lights. It makes sense, though. "A man is the sum of his memories you know, a Time Lord even more so." Wink I personally thought that Rhys would get to be the hero again, by drawing attention to the fact that Adam wasn't there when he met the Torchwood crew just a week (or more since his gunshot wound seems better) ago.

[QUOTE BY= Louis] I like this episode solely for the Captain Jack backstory. As for a creature existing entirely in the memories of others is a bit rubbish for me, but it served as a vehicle to uncover more about Captain Jack and his history, so I can look the other way on that aspect.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, Louis. Didn't they do something similar in Star Trek: Voyager where they flashed back to the time of Captain Sulu from Star Trek 6 because some creature was living in a fake memory? Having him be corporeal was maybe a step closer to rubbish, but I didn't think it was so bad.

[QUOTE BY= Louis] Yes. It reminded me of what the 5th Doctor once said about we are all the sum of our memories. [/QUOTE]

Ah, crap. You beat me to it. Frown

[QUOTE BY= TorchwoodPDX] Jack walking around the room pulling the Sarek, share with me your pain.. (Star Trek V) and acting like the priest handing out communion wafers to his flock.[/QUOTE]

Woo-hoo! More Star Trek references. I'm not the only one. Big Grin


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 16 2008 @ 10:58 PM
By: sarahbot

Content:

This episode was the best yet until about half way through, and now it's quickly become my least favourite of the new series. The concept of Adam was terrific, though surely I cannot be the first one to spot an enormous resemblance to the Buffy episode "Superstar," where a character who's been a geek through all of high school suddenly becomes the most popular kid in town. However, Buffy went that one step further and didn't explain how Jonathon got popular until the characters figured it out for themselves. The episodes are very, very similar, right down to the insertion of Adam/Jonathon in the opening credits.

I liked the reveal of more of Jack's backstory, particularly given his comments about being a boy soldier in "Captain Jack Harkness." However, given that we knew that Grey survived before we even knew who he was, the emotional punch just isn't as strong for me. I understand that Jack's upset about remembering Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru his dad dying, but has he completely forgotten what Hart said?

I normally think John Barrowman's a great actor, but something about his dramatic delivery this series has been off. The line about "what have they done to you" from "Meat" and all the scenes in this episode where he's remembering his childhood just seem slightly . . . off. It might have worked better if they'd had him voice-over the scenes or had him monologue it, one or the other.

Did anyone else find something odd about the child Jack's accent? Everyone else seemed effortless North American, but maybe that child actor had a problem with the accent? I'm Canadian, so maybe someone from the UK could chime in with their two cents.

I liked seeing a stronger Tosh, but felt she didn't fight enough to protect Adam. She tried much harder to save whatshisface from WWI, and her relationship with him was nowhere near as strong.

Gareth was superb. I love him getting extra time this season, as I frankly couldn't see why people were gushing about him last series, given that he had so little screen time. I'm a big sucker for this sort of portrayal of dreams/memories (i.e. the Buffy episode "Restless"), and I think they nailed it. The same goes for Jack walking into and watching his own memories. Ianto's desperation and fear, while at the same time perfectly portraying the angry side: excellent.

Ultimately, I might have liked this episode better in the long run if they hadn't released two episodes at once. "Reset" and the return of Martha raised the bar again.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 17 2008 @ 01:19 AM
By: Linquel

Content:

[QUOTE BY= sarahbot] The episodes are very, very similar, right down to the insertion of Adam/Jonathon in the opening credits.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't sure what you were talking about at first, since the opening credits are so short and are just the names appearing with the Torchwood logo. But I played the opening of the ep again and I saw Adam was in the opening "The 21st Century is when it all changes..." bit. I guess I didn't notice originally because I assumed the show always included clips of that week's episode as a teaser, kind of like how Galactica does the quick clips of that night's show right after the credits.

Superstar is one of my all-time favorite Buffy eps, though. Big Grin


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 17 2008 @ 01:31 PM
By: sarahbot

Content:

Yeah, I guess I should have been clearer on that. I kinda wish they'd incorporated him more, like shooting the slo-mo walk with the whole team at the end of the opening sequence with him included for just this one ep.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 17 2008 @ 03:09 PM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= sarahbot] Yeah, I guess I should have been clearer on that. I kinda wish they'd incorporated him more, like shooting the slo-mo walk with the whole team at the end of the opening sequence with him included for just this one ep.[/QUOTE]

The trouble with having him in those shots would mean Gwen's line 'Who's he?' would make no sence.

She comes into work late - a nice touch that (to show how her and Rhys are happy again) - whilst all the others have been touched by Adam.

Oooh err... they've all been touched up in Torchwood Oops!

The scene later with Gewn finding a 'stranger' in her home really worked well there.

Cheers - and welcome - daveac


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 17 2008 @ 04:30 PM
By: Linquel

Content:

[QUOTE BY= daveac] She comes into work late - a nice touch that (to show how her and Rhys are happy again) - whilst all the others have been touched by Adam.

Oooh err... they've all been touched up in Torchwood Oops!

The scene later with Gewn finding a 'stranger' in her home really worked well there.[/QUOTE]

Didn't they say something like Gwen and Rhys went away to Paris for a few days or something? I was under the impression she was on vacation when Adam came.

Not that it really matters that much. Big Grin


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 05:10 AM
By: Tin Dog Podcast

Content:

incase you missed them


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 10:00 AM
By: Linquel

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Tin Dog Podcast] incase you missed them

[/QUOTE]

Holy crap. Are those the Dalek tommyguns from Evolution of the Daleks?


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 10:10 AM
By: merlin_mccarley

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Linquel] [QUOTE BY= Tin Dog Podcast] incase you missed them

[/QUOTE]

Holy crap. Are those the Dalek tommyguns from Evolution of the Daleks?[/QUOTE]

Can't you just see the conversation in 1930's NY?
"What are these things? They look Welsh, send them to Torchwood." Razz


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 04:50 PM
By: mad4plaid

Content:

[QUOTE BY= sarahbot] I normally think John Barrowman's a great actor, but something about his dramatic delivery this series has been off. [/QUOTE]

I'd quickly reply that what's wrong with his acting is called CAMP! But that's probably unfair. It almost feels to me that he is acting as if he would for a live audience in a stage production instead of for TV. In stage, you tend to find "larger" gestures and less subtle emotions/etc. due to you trying to make certain that cheapskate in the last row the forth balcony can see you as well!


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 05:44 PM
By: sarahbot

Content:

[QUOTE BY= mad4plaid] [QUOTE BY= sarahbot] I normally think John Barrowman's a great actor, but something about his dramatic delivery this series has been off. [/QUOTE]

I'd quickly reply that what's wrong with his acting is called CAMP! But that's probably unfair. It almost feels to me that he is acting as if he would for a live audience in a stage production instead of for TV. In stage, you tend to find "larger" gestures and less subtle emotions/etc. due to you trying to make certain that cheapskate in the last row the forth balcony can see you as well![/QUOTE]

You know, that may well be it. I sure hope they tone it down right quick. Take the Phantom of the Opera movie, where they made the exact same mistake. Or heck, the entire oeuvre of Kenneth Branagh, love him as I do.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 06:23 PM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= mad4plaid] It almost feels to me that he is acting as if he would for a live audience in a stage production instead of for TV. In stage, you tend to find "larger" gestures and less subtle emotions/etc. due to you trying to make certain that cheapskate in the last row the forth balcony can see you as well![/QUOTE]

Yes he does a lot of 'qwiggling' ie. when he's holding a gun on someone he's moving his centre of gravity etc. rather than just holding the gun.

To be fair I thinks it's just his stage acting background coming out.

Cheers, daveac


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 06:36 PM
By: rocko

Content:

[QUOTE BY= daveac] To be fair I thinks it's just his stage acting background coming out.[/QUOTE]

I'd bet you're right. But I always just thought of Jack as being the overly dramatic, hey-look-at-me type of guy.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 18 2008 @ 07:00 PM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= rocko] [QUOTE BY= daveac] To be fair I thinks it's just his stage acting background coming out.[/QUOTE]

I'd bet you're right. But I always just thought of Jack as being the overly dramatic, hey-look-at-me type of guy.[/QUOTE]

Of course the 'wiggling' could be some sort of omni-sexual mating dance Oops!

Cheers, daveac


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 23 2008 @ 02:52 AM
By: Cowboy76

Content:

I really like the episode in the overall. I didn't mind the conference table scene as others seem to have. I thought Jack as Christ was slightly over the top, but not to the point that I felt it brought down the entire episode. Overall I think this entire season has been such a tremendous improvement over the first which I really liked by the way. A lot of the uneven rough textures have been smoothed over and every character has such a better flow. The team concept feels more cohesive and believable now.

The guy who played Adam really made the episode for me. It is easily a role that could have fallen into melodrama and hand ringing but he gave it such a natural approach. I'm still getting caught up, but I can't wait for Martha!


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: February 26 2008 @ 02:48 PM
By: silvanthalas

Content:

I'm enjoying this season for the most part. I think it's far more consistent than the first season, and I find myself being a bit more forgiving of obvious plot holes and other story problems.


SPOILERS * TW S2 Episode 5 - ADAM

Posted on: April 09 2008 @ 02:48 PM
By: Magpie

Content:

I accidentally missed this one but finally caught it last night.

I was sitting there, really enjoying it - UNTIL the rubbish messianic stuff at the end. There was some massive eye-rolling at my house, let me tell you.

It's so bizarre - I can't quite figure out why I genuinely *like* the show because there seem to be so many reasons to *dislike* it - but nevertheless I do. I like the characters - heck, I even really liked Owen in this episode but I guess that's because he was being such a sympathetic sap. I thought the bit towards the end with Gwen & her fiance in bed was really lovely.

Yes I think this is probably my favorite episode of the series so far (I'm only up to 8 actually) except for the Jack giving them communion bit.


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