Subject: The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 21 2008 @ 09:03 AM
By: daveac

Content:



This might be a Spoiler as it is about a cast member - but there will be SPOILERS in this Thread



Here is the Actress Dervla Kirwan who plays Miss Hartigan in 'The Next Doctor' - she was on Saturday Kitchen.



I didn't watch it all but I don't think she gave any spoilers in the show:-



Save to see full size











Cheers, daveac



Replies:

The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 21 2008 @ 09:25 AM
By: cybercolin

Content:

I don't get it Dave, what's spoilerish about it?

Does she make rubbish cakes or something? Razz


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 08:26 PM
By: odessasteps

Content:


Since it's been many hours since the show aired and this is the first thread (and there's not much here), i take it as a bad sign.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 07:09 PM
By: daveac

Content:


EDIT - mess up my last post here.

Didn't like it much - will post more later.

:-(

Cheers, daveac


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 09:46 PM
By: rheimbro

Content:

1 part godzilla, 1 part temple of doom, a couple of doctors, some cybermen and a pinch of holiday cheer.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 09:55 PM
By: mad4plaid

Content:

SPOILERS!!!






It's 8:43 CST. The Next Doctor aired almost nine hours ago in the UK and the only comment we have is from Dave who didn't like it much? (edit: and Rheimbro who commented while I was writing my diatribe) Shocking really.

And I mean the lack of posts, because I kind of agree with Dave. In fact, as I watched it, I found myself making mental lists of everything I need to do tomorrow (thank you cards, after Christmas sales, pack for New Years trip, etc). I have thought about it and I can think of one word to describe it: Trite. The Doctor would have been better served if RTD HAD done a complete re-hash of The One Doctor.

Here are my general problems with it:

Poor orphan children
Man-hating woman who becomes "king"? (really? shouldn't she be queen?)
Exploitation of aforementioned poor orphan children
Lost possession turns out to be a child
Rosita is only good enough for a nursemaid to child
Doctor notes Rosita's name is close to Rose's name
Wookie-like cybermen
Saving of the aforementioned poor orphan children

What did I like?
Jackson Lake leading a cheer for the Doctor
Jackson not being able to handle the Tardis (seems reasonable to me)
The Doctor having Christmas dinner with the Lakes and their new nursemaid Rosita (except that Rosita is just the nursemaid).

I'll watch it again tomorrow, and maybe I'll have a more favorable view of it them.

Now, let the disagreements begin!

(by the way, my mantra for the evening is any Doctor is better than no Doctor, but only just)


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 10:14 PM
By: cybercolin

Content:

Thought it was okay, not sure about the CyberKing! Great CGI though! Best moment (apart from every scene Morrisery was in!) seeing the 10 Doctors of course!

Really starting to feel a wee bit drunk, so i'll grab my whiskey and speak more when I watch it again! Merry Xmas everyone!

Here's looking forward to 'The Planet of the Dead'!


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 10:45 PM
By: rocko

Content:

I took the whole "cyber king" (and not "queen") thing to be explained by the Doctor's comment about what a "cyber king" is. My memory is not prefect, but it was something like "A ship- dreadnaught class, for conquering worlds, with a conversion unit capable of upgrading millions."

So it seems the "cyber king" was the whole robot/ship thing, and not just the mind operating it.

But I agree that the story was kind of "meh". Of course, I was sure going into it that Morrissey was not going to be the actual Doctor.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 10:52 PM
By: tarashnat

Content:


I thought this was a fun romp for Christmas. It had its dark bits, but it also had its lighter moments.

Let's see, some homages: the Cybership was similar to the K-1 Robot. The infostamp with the prior Doctors was a flashback to Earthshock. The Cybershades remind me of Spare Parts, where they even cyberneticised their pets and beasts of burden.

So, what else could Rosita have aspired to in Victorian London? Come on, really?

Of course, Cybermen would be led by a Cyberking. With the exception of the depiction of the Cyberwoman in Torchwood, gender is really not something important to the Cyberrace, as they increase their numbers by converting others, not reproduction.

The whole story of Jackson Lake I liked. He went from having lost everything, to having hope for the future with the return of his son, in whom something of his wife survives. It was interesting to see how a human could come to terms with the vague "memories" of a Timelord. This is also a counterpoint to the end of the Donna story, where Donna could not physically handle having the actual sum of the Doctor's experiences, while Jackson is dealing with just having the faint memories extrapolated from the Cybermen's infostamp.

I felt that the end of the "Cyberking" was written well enough, but that the on screen representation of the Cybermen, and then Hartigan just bursting in a CGI effect diminished the moment.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 11:00 PM
By: indiana_brian

Content:

I think the Cyberking was the biggest let down of the story. Everything was leading towards a crescendo and it didn't follow through. There were undoubtedly other ways the Cyberking idea could have been played out, but that will end up being discussed in the forums.

I did enjoy David Morrisey as the other Doctor. He was a bit full of himself, but the same could be said for William Hartnell and Colin Baker.

The earlier complaints about Rosita being a nurse maid don't make sense to me. It was too soon for Jackson Lake to even consider having a more serious relationship with her and for the times, an African womans public role in society would have been very limited, even amongst those who considered her an equal. Having Rosita as the nurse maid would be the perfect role, allowing her to remain in the family.

It was absolutely fantastic to see all the Doctors and it might add some interest in viewers of the new series to take a more serious look at the classic series.

It also showed that the Daleks knew who the ninth Doctor was, lending some credence to the theory that he was the one who fought in the time war.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 11:23 PM
By: rocko

Content:

[QUOTE BY= indiana_brian]It also showed that the Daleks knew who the ninth Doctor was, lending some credence to the theory that he was the one who fought in the time war.[/QUOTE]

Did you mean the eighth Doctor? I agree, it was nice to see a reference there.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 25 2008 @ 11:36 PM
By: silvanthalas

Content:

I thought the first 45 minutes, while it has some minor problems, were pretty good.

It did lead on for quite awhile whether or not the other Doctor was the Doctor or not, or what he was doing at all (whether the hero or a thief, etc).

The last 15 minutes, with all the giant robot stuff, was the kind of crap that RTD continues to write that has lead people to want him gone. Ugh.

As for the 'little' problems (beyond the stupidity of giant robots), the biggest one that springs to mind is the infostamps. Specifically, how an infostamp with all this info on the Doctor came into existence. It's another of those semi-sized plot holes that RTD is so good for throwing out there every couple of stories he writes. Confused


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 12:22 AM
By: seanhuxter

Content:

[QUOTE BY= rheimbro] 1 part godzilla, 1 part temple of doom, a couple of doctors, some cybermen and a pinch of holiday cheer.[/QUOTE]

1 part "Iron Giant", you mean. :-)

I figured out the Next Doctor's story right away. It didn't diminish the story too much for me, though having the Iron Giant Stomping around London while the contents of its head stood stock still without as much as an off-balance quake, was a bit stupid.

I didn't hate this special. I thought it was more or less above par compared to the Titanic one, which I thought was FAR more stupid in almost all ways. Including having the villain stowed away on board the very ship he's trying to crash for insurance money... uh... who thought of that?

Anyway, this one was far better.

My wife thought that the evil woman was played by the same actress who played one of the two women who initially recruited Captain Jack into Torchwood back in the early 20th century. Anyone know if that's true? And why does she look so much like Miranda Richardson?

Sean.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 12:42 AM
By: tarashnat

Content:

[QUOTE BY= seanhuxter]

My wife thought that the evil woman was played by the same actress who played one of the two women who initially recruited Captain Jack into Torchwood back in the early 20th century. Anyone know if that's true? And why does she look so much like Miranda Richardson?

Sean.
[/QUOTE]

Early Torchwood...

Amy Manson played Alice Guppy
Heather Craney played Emily Holroyd


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 12:45 AM
By: tarashnat

Content:

[QUOTE BY= silvanthalas] As for the 'little' problems (beyond the stupidity of giant robots), the biggest one that springs to mind is the infostamps. Specifically, how an infostamp with all this info on the Doctor came into existence. It's another of those semi-sized plot holes that RTD is so good for throwing out there every couple of stories he writes. Confused [/QUOTE]

This is not a Russell T. Davies original. This is a copy of a scene from Earthshock where the Cybermen are examining info on the Doctor on their holovid, or whatever it was.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 01:52 AM
By: silvanthalas

Content:

[QUOTE BY= tarashnat]This is not a Russell T. Davies original. This is a copy of a scene from Earthshock where the Cybermen are examining info on the Doctor on their holovid, or whatever it was.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well, I try and forget about anything with Adric in it. Mr. Green


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 02:52 AM
By: romana_II

Content:

I can't believe how much many people disliked this.
What do you people want? You never ever seem to be happy with anything.
I remember people saying they wanted this and that in a christmas special (old enemy, not set in modern times) yet when you get what you said you wanted you aren't happy. I just don't understand fandom sometimes.
Sometimes if I love an episode, and everyone else hates it, I feel really stupid because I couldn't see the problems that everyone else could.
Is there something wrong with me for loving this episode.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Moving on.

I loved this. Every moment, every scene. Best Christmas special ever for me.
It was everything I was hoping it to be (expect for David Morrissey being the Eleventh Doctor... but that was just my inner fangirl talking)

David Morrissey was as fantastic as I hoped he would be, and was absolutely joyed to see his name in the opening credits.
I loved the Steampunk type design of the Cyberking, the setting and did I mention David Morrissey. ^^

It's a 5 easy, 4.5 if people are going to start telling me "why did you like it is was so trite"
I'll save the rest of my throughts for my own podcast and commentary and of course for the live podshock.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 04:17 AM
By: tdrury

Content:

You all seem very hard to please to me, personally I enjoyed it and thought it was one of the best xmas specials. The writing had depth so it will stand up to repeat viewings admitadally we were lied to by the title but that is a minor flaw as the way this was covered was well written and acted. The Iron Man climax wasn't original but was dramatic and entertaining surely all we need of a conclusion. Tennant was excellent as ever making me laugh and touching me with the darker more emotional moments. For my mini podcast view go here


EDIT: Fixed link at end of post which was messing with the formatting of the page.—Taras


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 05:36 AM
By: shockeye07

Content:

4.5 out of 5 for me. Much much better than last year (no rubbish wooden "acting" from Kylie for a start, the worst guest actor in Who history ?).
Fun, exciting & a really good story. Loved David Morrissey & Kervla Derwin, although I have to admit I have always fancied her since "Ballykissangel". Seeing all 10 Doctors was just wonderful. Laughed out loud when I saw the balloon TARDIS. Bring on "Planet of The Dead" !


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 06:17 AM
By: Mohan

Content:

Now I didn't get a lot of sleep the night before but I was watching The Next Doctor and fell asleep at the end. I thought the first part was interesting, but as soon as you realize it wasn't the Doctor, I lost all interest. Seemed like an easy out to me.

The giant robot at the end was a bit over the top to me. I didn't feel any sense of impending doom as you knew the Doctor was going to save the day and saving children all looking like Tiny Tim--yeah, just didn't work for me.

I wouldn't say I hated it, but it was not one of my favorites. I rank it toward the bottom of the Christmas specials.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 06:39 AM
By: romana_II

Content:

Glad to see I'm not the only one who loved it.

I'd hate this episode to be like Last of the Timelords or Adric is for me.

(I love them both heaps, but I seem to be one of the few people in fandom that do)


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 06:51 AM
By: spoo

Content:

Things / Dialogs i liked:
(1) the reference to Rose (Murray Gold even had the Rose music subtly underlying the melody)
Oh, I should introduce Rosita.
My faithful companion, always
telling me off. Well,
they do, don't they?
Good name. Hello, Rosita.

(2) the flashback with all the doctors in black and white (the infostamp projecting on the wall)

(3)the new meaning of TARDIS - Tethered Aerial
Release Developed In Style

(4)the Doctor's admittance of love -

Tell me one thing.

All those facts and figures
I saw of The Doctor's life,
you were never alone.

All those bright
and shining companions!

But not any more?

No.
Might I ask, why not?

They leave.

Because they should.

Or they find someone else.

And some of them...
some of them forget me.

I suppose, in the end...
..they break my heart.



The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 07:08 AM
By: indiana_brian

Content:

[QUOTE BY= tarashnat] [QUOTE BY= silvanthalas] As for the 'little' problems (beyond the stupidity of giant robots), the biggest one that springs to mind is the infostamps. Specifically, how an infostamp with all this info on the Doctor came into existence. It's another of those semi-sized plot holes that RTD is so good for throwing out there every couple of stories he writes. Confused [/QUOTE]

This is not a Russell T. Davies original. This is a copy of a scene from Earthshock where the Cybermen are examining info on the Doctor on their holovid, or whatever it was.[/QUOTE]

There is a throwaway line in the story that says the infostamps were "stolen from the daleks inside the void, I'd say". The cybermen in this story are based on those created on the parallel Earth and would not have had any knowledge of earlier Doctors, which would support the idea that they got it from the daleks. On the other hand, why would the daleks need such technology? They never forget a Doctor, current or past.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 08:29 AM
By: spoo

Content:

so then i ask one more question: if the cybermen escaped the void, is there possibility that some form of Dalek / Davros was there and also escaped (again)?


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 08:51 AM
By: indiana_brian

Content:

[QUOTE BY= spoo] so then i ask one more question: if the cybermen escaped the void, is there possibility that some form of Dalek / Davros was there and also escaped (again)? [/QUOTE]

I wouldn't think so. Davros was never in the void, he was locked in the time war until dalek Caan freed him. He created daleks from his own body cells and those were apparently destroyed in 'Journey's End'. Davros and/or some of the daleks could have escaped, but we will have to wait and see about that.

There is a possibility that some of the daleks in the void could have escaped, like the cybermen did, but there isn't any way to know. The Doctor seemed to present the idea that everything in the void was destroyed except for those cybermen that had escaped, but that may have been just his opinion.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 09:31 AM
By: DarthSkeptical

Content:

About the only things that seriously disappointed me in this episode were Morrissey's flat, predictable acting and Kirwan's inability to ever be used again. The former makes me wonder what all the Morrissey buzz was in aid of, and the latter kills me, cause she'd make the most fabulous companion. But, hey, at least we've returned to giving the Christmas specials actual, y'know, plots. It wasn't a classic episode but it was very far from last year's muck. On pure story grounds, it's probably my second favorite holiday outing.

To the extent that its content is seriously questionable, it suffers, as I fear most of these 2009 specials will, from something that's not its fault. Except for the last one, they'll probably all be fairly forgettable. They aren't really building towards anything, nor using elements that will likely be carried forward. And they need to be wholly resolved within their limited runtime. So, from a certain point of view, this episode naturally can't be as good as "The Christmas Invasion" or even "The Runaway Bride", because it contains little of relevance to the past or future of the program. In other words, this episode suffers simply because we know Season 5 is going to be a mild reboot. It's like reading TV Comic adventures of the Second Doctor written in the long gap after Troughton had resigned, but before Pertwee appeared. Great stories, but made less relevant by what Barry Letts subsequently did. In the words of US editorialist, Rachel Maddow, "We got us some serious quackitude here on the Lame Duck watch."

Still, it was an opportunity for the new to shine amidst the retiring. Although he wasn't necessarily able to get much of interest out of Morrissey, Andy Goddard's first Doctor Who directorial turn certainly recommends him to Moffat's use. While I'll always prefer Euros Lyn on any story, It was more than a relief to have one the younger, riskier directors at Torchwood given a chance. I really enjoyed how intimate, messy, and virtually steadi-cammed some shots were. The first 15 minutes or so of the main story, as the Doctor is discovering the truth about the Next Doctor, particularly benefited from this approach. Goddard's intimate style, in fact, helped Morrissey's character more than Morrissey himself. With luck, Ashley Way will come over from Torchwood in the next couple of years.

I've been rambling a bit on this post, as is likely on the sleepy day after Christmas, so let me abruptly end with this thought. Perhaps the biggest recommendation I can give to the episode is it put a smile on the face of a confirmed Cyber-hater. And, in a sure sign of improvement over last year, I've already rewatched it twice.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 11:26 AM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= seanhuxter]

My wife thought that the evil woman was played by the same actress who played one of the two women who initially recruited Captain Jack into Torchwood back in the early 20th century. Anyone know if that's true? And why does she look so much like Miranda Richardson?

Sean.
[/QUOTE]

Actress Dervla Kirwan who plays Miss Hartigan was also in the UK comedy SF series'Goodnight Sweeheart'

Cheers, daveac


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 12:09 PM
By: That Neil Guy

Content:

I was a bit disappointed that Jackson Lake didn't get to fly in his own Tardis and became such a bystander in the proceedings. It would have been nice if he and 10 had at least sort of teamed up for the big finale. Dramatically, it would have worked a lot better, I think. You've set up this guy who's built this wonderful thing, he gets torn down by finding out his real identity, but then he should have been built back up again -- a nice character arc that could have still worked while allowing 10 to be the big hero since it's his show.

I love that McGann is now unequivocally established as Doctor Number 8.

All in all, I enjoyed it.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 12:58 PM
By: cybercolin

Content:

Managed to watch it again and it was okay, not brilliant but okay. Can't believe some of you are criticising David Morrissey, who was the best thing about the episode. Although I agree that the CyberKing was way OTT. Once they bring back the Mondas Cybermen, the better (Cyberman War, anyone?)

I did feel that the episode was a bit rushed and would have been better if it had an extra 15 minutes.

Best moment by a mile was the 10 Doctors. A truly superb moment that proves once and for all that the classic and new is all the same story!


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 01:20 PM
By: spoo

Content:

yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 01:44 PM
By: DarthSkeptical

Content:

[QUOTE BY= spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?[/QUOTE]I think the question you really should be asking is why the hell did gold dust affect the old Cybermen? It's a silly sort of kryptonite for a being made of metal.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 02:16 PM
By: tarashnat

Content:

[QUOTE BY= spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?[/QUOTE]

Actually, the originals—in The Tenth Planet—were killed by radiation and energy overload/drain. It was only in the seventies and eighties that the writers got stuck on the "gold" crutch and then totally distorted it to where it didn't make any sense at all. The concept of a glitter gun which would, one assumes, send a cloud of fine gold dust into the electronics causing short circuits all over the place is interesting, but the way the gold vulnerability was actually handled in the later stories was down right ludicrous.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 02:38 PM
By: rocko

Content:

[QUOTE BY= romana_II] Glad to see I'm not the only one who loved it.

I'd hate this episode to be like Last of the Timelords or Adric is for me.

(I love them both heaps, but I seem to be one of the few people in fandom that do)[/QUOTE]

Well, I liked it much more than VotD, but I think I have been too entrenched in the spoilers of late... (I also don't understand why everyone hates Adric, but that'd be for another thread!)


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 02:42 PM
By: rocko

Content:

Here's a question to the forum moderators- why is this thread under "General Doctor Who Chatter" and not "The David Tennant Era"?


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 03:13 PM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= rocko] Here's a question to the forum moderators- why is this thread under "General Doctor Who Chatter" and not "The David Tennant Era"?[/QUOTE]

Moved

Cheers, daveac


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 03:36 PM
By: tarashnat

Content:

[QUOTE BY= rocko] Here's a question to the forum moderators- why is this thread under "General Doctor Who Chatter" and not "The David Tennant Era"?[/QUOTE]

Maybe we are slacking off during the holidays? Oh, no, not Dave, but I may be! Wink Oops! Razz


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 07:12 PM
By: silvanthalas

Content:

[QUOTE BY= romana_II]I can't believe how much many people disliked this.[/QUOTE]

Just 10 to 15 minutes of it.

[QUOTE BY= romana_II]What do you people want? You never ever seem to be happy with anything.[/QUOTE]

As I said, I was really enjoying the episode, and the way it was going, Morrissey and all (my wife didn't like him at all).

But the Cyberking was so ridiculous, that only RTD would dare write it into Doctor Who. And he's done such things repeatedly.

To me, it just isn't Who. Nor is the Doctor being turned into Gollum or whatever the hell that thing is from Harry Potter. Or his flying around like an angel.

Who has always had the absurd. But there's the absurd, and then there's the absurd.

[QUOTE BY= romana_II]Is there something wrong with me for loving this episode.[/QUOTE]

No, as long as it's recognized that not everybody will have the same tastes that you do. I mean, there are people out there that love the episode "Love and Monsters"! And I'm wondering what's wrong with them. Laughing Out Loud


I'm thinking back now again to how the story played out, and how well RTD did keep it to the vest within the story on the reveal of Morrissey's character. Not giving away the sound of his heartbeat, the Doctor commenting on how much money the Other Doctor has (leading to my comment on whether he's just a scam artist). It was written well, and that's where RTD continues to shine, when he keeps things small.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 26 2008 @ 09:01 PM
By: tarashnat

Content:

[QUOTE BY= silvanthalas]
I'm thinking back now again to how the story played out, and how well RTD did keep it to the vest within the story on the reveal of Morrissey's character. Not giving away the sound of his heartbeat, the Doctor commenting on how much money the Other Doctor has (leading to my comment on whether he's just a scam artist). It was written well, and that's where RTD continues to shine, when he keeps things small.[/QUOTE]

Actually, there was a line about the heartbeat originally, but it was removed to keep the mystery just a bit longer. This was mentioned in the Doctor Who Confidential episode for the special.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 27 2008 @ 01:58 AM
By: seanhuxter

Content:

[QUOTE BY= DarthSkeptical] [QUOTE BY= spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?[/QUOTE]I think the question you really should be asking is why the hell did gold dust affect the old Cybermen? It's a silly sort of kryptonite for a being made of metal. [/QUOTE]

Well, these Cybermen are not related in any way to the original Cybermen. Created on an alternate Earth, they don't have the same breathing mechanisms of the originals. Therefore gold doesn't affect them.

Some people may not recall that it's gold DUST that kills Cybermen because it interferes with their breathing aparatus. Clogs the breathing vents, etc.

Which is why it's so stupid in "Silver Nemesis" that Ace can kill a Cyberman by slingshotting a gold nugget at them. Uh... it seems some writer recalled that gold killed Cybermen, but forgot to research why.

A gold nugget would have no effect. But it did in that one.

So in this one, gold would not work anyway, because these are not the Mondasian Cybermen with their poorly designed breathing systems.

Sean.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 27 2008 @ 07:16 AM
By: sgb1975

Content:

I think I've used this phrase to describe most of seasons 3 and 4, but I'd say this episode wasn't good, but wasn't bad either.

Another void story. oh great. yippee. When are they just going to be done with it? I'd much rather them have a Cyberman escape each time (a la Davros in the classic series), rather than keep dipping into the void for Cybermen/Dalek plots.

This children/slave labor angle didn't bother me so much as why use children anyway? They're small and weak. Why not kidnap a bunch of adults to do their job?

Miss Hartigan seemed like she could be an interesting character, but they didn't give us enough of a backstory to care. btw, the actress seemed very familiar...has she ever done any significant work in the US? I'm sure I haven't seen her in anything British (unless she was in Who previously, or Torchwood)

I'm not familiar with any of David Morrissey's work (off the top of my head), but I did enjoy his acting a lot. He struck me as a cross between Peter Davison and Liam Neeson. Once you find out his true identity, he is a character you can actually feel for.

As everyone is mentioning, the 10 Doctors in the infostamp was easily the best part of the story.

The 2nd best thing about the story for me was the music. Kind of like the action-packed, fast paced music from the old swashbuckling films.

Does this mean that BBC has officially gone Hollywood, now that Megatron has had a cameo in a Who story?

Overall, middle of the road. 3 out of 5 for me. Easily the best Xmas story so far, which unfortunately isn't saying much.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 27 2008 @ 08:11 AM
By: DarthSkeptical

Content:

[QUOTE BY= seanhuxter] [QUOTE BY= DarthSkeptical] [QUOTE BY= spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?[/QUOTE]I think the question you really should be asking is why the hell did gold dust affect the old Cybermen? It's a silly sort of kryptonite for a being made of metal. [/QUOTE]Well, these Cybermen are not related in any way to the original Cybermen. Created on an alternate Earth, they don't have the same breathing mechanisms of the originals. Therefore gold doesn't affect them.[/QUOTE]Oh, I think we recall literally why gold fouls up the earlier Cybermen. The question is why there are breathing systems at all. This illogical weakness is a part of why Cybermen are generally such problems. No one has sat down and thought them through. And this gold weakness totally proves it. They're replacing body parts to be stronger, but don't find a workaround for the respiratory system? One of the weakest aspects of the human design is the need to breathe, yet the Cybermen still do it? The elimination of emotions was deemed more important—and was miraculously more achievable—than the elimination of the respiratory system? When you really listen to "The Tenth Planet", nothing that follows makes a lot of sense. And, really, even "Planet" itself posits something remarkably unrealistic. The notion that humans would voluntarily choose to have their emotions removed is . . . well, let's just say a remarkable assertion.

But I digress. Let's just admit to this breathing apparatus thing of old. Why in the hell does gold dust screw with it? Surely the point of the apparatus is to filter air. Why would gold dust particularly clog it? Why wouldn't you be able to overwhelm the filter with a suitable amount of any fine particle? Sand, for instance, would seem to an invaluable agent in this regard. But no, it's magically gold that must do the trick. And so Cybermen have the lamest weakness of any villain ever created. It's only gold because gold is comparatively rare, not because it makes any real sense.

Frankly the Cybus Cybermen are a logical improvement on their "Doctor's universe" compatriots. Their weakness is their comparatively primitive technology. But, yanno, I buy the way in which they were created a whole lot more than the implication of what the 1963 series told us. They're the result of the madness of a sick, but brilliant, individual. And they're emotions aren't gone; they're inhibited. Which is a cool twist.

Nevertheless, they're still dramatically uninteresting because they're all victims. They're fighting for something in which they don't believe. They are just big, dumb robots.

Until and unless Cybermen are shown to have individuality, personality, and some sort of imperfect emotional inhibition, they'll remain the dullest of adversaries. Everyone seems to dislike Torchwood's "Cyberwoman" episode, and there are certainly reasons for that. But the emotional depiction of half-conversion was far more interesting than full conversion. Likewise, Kroton from the DWM comic strips was compelling and even heroic in his Tin Man's quest to regain his heart.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 27 2008 @ 12:44 PM
By: Doctor Whoovie

Content:

[QUOTE BY= seanhuxter]

1 part "Iron Giant", you mean. :-)
[/QUOTE]

"The Iron Man" (Ted Hughes) converted to the Iron Giant for the American Market (at the same time as losing the Dragon which used Australia as a nest).

(To be fair, I think the name change may have been to avoid the legal wrath of Marvel Comics)

I was more remindered of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, particularly since "The Valiant" was also nicked from it.

Overall.

I liked:
1) Not set in Christmas this year
2) No robots which looked like a) Santa b) Angels c) anything Christmasy
3) Cyberleader with cool Black Face

I didn't like
1) Waifs, who looked like West-End stage school rejects from Oliver
2) Using said waifs as guilt trip (Let 'em die I say)
3) Token Black Lady, who is not treated by those around her in the context of the period.
4) Iron Man/Sky Captain Robot/ Steam Punk Transformers
5) Use of a hot air ballon for no apparent reason
6) Saying Cyber King is a ship, like the Doctor has encountered the parallel world cyber-men, and there technology, somewhere else since Doomsday.
7) Use of a Tiny Tim waif as "lost property" of Mr Lake

Over all ranks behind "Voyage of the damned", "runaway bride" but above "Christmas Invasion" for me.



The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 27 2008 @ 02:33 PM
By: Darkman216

Content:

For me this episode probably got a 3.5 out 5. Like the other Christmas Specials it was a nice little package of Doctor Who meant to tide you over. Some things I liked, first I really enjoyed David Morrissey, if he hadn’t been used here I wouldn’t have minded him being him a later Doctor. Who knows maybe they still could they did it with Colin Baker and Freema Agyeman. Second I like how they sometimes take tidbits from spin-off media for plot. The idea of having someone becoming the Doctor because of absorbing his memories was similar idea used in the Big Finish Audio Minuet in Hell. If you haven’t listened to it yet I recommend it I thought it was good. And finally I enjoyed that the Doctor finally accepted someone’s offer to stay for a meal. I agree that the Cyberking was over the top. I have enjoyed RTD's writing especially during the first series but sometimes he sticks stuff in there that makes you wonder. That’s pretty much my biggest complaint with the episode but I also thought Miss Hartigan should have been given more story. Anyways that’s it from me for now.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 27 2008 @ 03:56 PM
By: tarashnat

Content:

[QUOTE BY= silvanthalas] biggest one that springs to mind is the infostamps. Specifically, how an infostamp with all this info on the Doctor came into existence. It's another of those semi-sized plot holes that RTD is so good for throwing out there every couple of stories he writes. Confused [/QUOTE]

I guess you missed the line where the Doctor speculates that they were taken from the Daleks in the Void. The Daleks would have info on all the Doctors, wouldn't they?


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 08:33 AM
By: torchkat

Content:

I felt this was the best Christmas special to date. Far, far better than VotD and better than Runaway Bride. I'm not saying there wasn't problems or plot holes but I feel that people are being overly critical of it.

My one disappointment is that Morrissey is most definitely not going to be the 11th Doctor. I had a sinking feeling that he wasn't but I really, really hoped that I was wrong. I actually almost turned it off when I found out he wasn't. I'm glad I finished it though because the chemistry between Tennant/Morrissey was great.

Fans are never happy though. I've read people criticizing the way Rosita was treated as not historically accurate. Then people complaining that she was "just a nursemaid." Black people in Britain while not treated as equals, were treated a lot better than their counterparts in America.

Not a huge fan of the Cybermen so it wasn't great in that regard and I don't like the tie-in between Cybermen and Daleks.

I enjoyed it. 4/5


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 12:52 PM
By: jwallrobb63

Content:

Just want to comment that being in America and not being as technologically updated as some of you here, I have only seen short portions of "The Next Doctor", but those included most of the salient parts (beginning, end, ten doctors, etc.). What I saw looked great, and I agree that Christmas in other than modern day was a treat. And what is wrong with a giant Cybership in 19th century London? The reason we like Doctor Who is the fact that it mixes the "absurd" with the real world so frequently. And a Tereleptil android in 17th Heathrow or a Zygon Skarassen in 1970's Scotland is less "jarring"?


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 04:02 PM
By: barnabeee

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie]

I was more remindered of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, particularly since "The Valiant" was also nicked from it.

[/QUOTE]

Which in turn was nicked from the SHIELD helicarriers in the Marvel Universe Wink


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 04:37 PM
By: Tin-Dog-Podcast

Content:

[QUOTE BY= barnabeee] [QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie]

I was more remindered of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, particularly since "The Valiant" was also nicked from it.

[/QUOTE]

Which in turn was nicked from the SHIELD helicarriers in the Marvel Universe Wink[/QUOTE]

Which in turn was stolen from Captain Scalet


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 05:13 PM
By: hypocaust

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Tin-Dog-Podcast] [QUOTE BY= barnabeee] [QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie]

I was more remindered of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, particularly since "The Valiant" was also nicked from it.

[/QUOTE]

Which in turn was nicked from the SHIELD helicarriers in the Marvel Universe Wink[/QUOTE]

Which in turn was stolen from Captain Scalet[/QUOTE]

Actually, having just looked it up helicarriers were apparently introduced in 1965 while Captain Scarlet didn't begin until 1967. Wink

Anyway without wishing to go miles off topic, perhaps Laputa in Gulliver's Travels was the original influence for all these flying base ideas? Big Grin


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 06:19 PM
By: dave hingley

Content:

Just found myself reflecting on the christmas special this evening and considering the Cybermen are so logical, does it seem logical that they would have in their possesion a means of storing information that also DESTROYS them.

actually the more I think about it the less it makes any sense, in effect the infospikes ( cant remember the correct term) acts as a slide projector so just projecting the data at the cybermen is enough to make their heads explode yet, there is a socket in their chest that allows them to absorb the whole lot without exploding.

Therefore i think we have just found the cybermens weakness, no its not gold or radiation it is Slideshows ( actually if i have to sit through another slideshow of someones holiday snaps then my head may well explode)

Quick everyone, up into your attics, you must have a box of slides up there someplace!

wasn't totally convinced by the whole cyber king thing either, it seems a bit like those wind up radios, get some street urchins to wind it up for a few minutes and bam! giant robot destroying huge swathes of London.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to have children disappearing for a few months or so?

I hope the next christmas special will be slightly smaller in scale. I am kind of getting bored with having a HUGE christmas themed object threatening London.
on the whole I thought the first half was ace but the whole robot thing really didn't help things really.




The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 06:47 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Wonderful nonsense, indeed! A steampunk, pantomime extravaganza complete with Ratking (Cyber King), Wicked Step-mother and all of it finally becoming Jack and the Beanstalk.
Managed to avoid all reviews, spoilers and other people’s opinions of this and I for one loved it. The Next Doctor conceit, cleverly played and not strung out for too long. The Cyber King, a fabulous new addition to the Cyber mythos. All ten Doctors! Merry Christmas! Wonderful, glorious, silly nonsense!


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 29 2008 @ 06:54 PM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Idiom]

Wonderful nonsense, indeed!

Wonderful, glorious, silly nonsense!
[/QUOTE]

Well I agree with these parts of your comments :-)

Cheers, daveac


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 30 2008 @ 12:00 AM
By: odessasteps

Content:


While I enjoyed the episode for the most part, I am sad that we did not get the rumored "self-referential" episode where the Doctor stumbles into a movie being made about his life.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 30 2008 @ 09:55 AM
By: seanhuxter

Content:

[QUOTE BY= DarthSkeptical]Oh, I think we recall literally why gold fouls up the earlier Cybermen. The question is why there are breathing systems at all. This illogical weakness is a part of why Cybermen are generally such problems. No one has sat down and thought them through. And this gold weakness totally proves it. They're replacing body parts to be stronger, but don't find a workaround for the respiratory system? One of the weakest aspects of the human design is the need to breathe, yet the Cybermen still do it?[/QUOTE]

It seems to me that since Cybermen are still cyborgs, and not robots, you need a respiratory system to keep the living parts alive. When we say "breathe" we simply mean the way in which these hybrid human/machines take in oxygen to keep the biological parts alive.

If they didn't have some way to move oxygen through the blood, the biological parts would decay and die.

Cybermen might well be robots, then. But they aren't. Clearly they are part human, part machine, so they need some way to "breathe".

Whatever it was that provided that mechanism was blockable by fine gold dust.

But no, blocking it with just anything might not work. It's possible lead might. Perhaps the density and weight had something to do with it. The system may have been designed to filter almost anything - or more likely, was designed very cleverly to filter anything common they might come up against. Gold being fairly rare in most places, might not have been on the list of things they needed to worry about filtering.

There are a buzillion ways to explain almost anything you want in a Science Fiction universe.

I'm still just miffed that gold nuggets were used just as effectively in "Silver Nemesis"... that was stupid.

Sean.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 30 2008 @ 12:33 PM
By: deckard973

Content:

I have a question for everyone. Why was the title of this episode “The Next Doctor”? Was it to throw all the fanboys off? Or does Russell T want throw a big screwball for who will play the next Doctor? Here is a little speculation…

What if the episode title is the most obvious hint to Morrissery being the next Doctor that it’s right in front of our faces? Just because he plays a human with the Doctor’s memories doesn’t mean that Tennant can't regenerate into him. This episode, in a way, throws off everyones speculation that Morrissery is now out of the running. As far as we know Jackson Lake may have made some kind of mental bond to the Doctor due to the infostamp (its scifi so work with me). Thoughts?

P.S.- Tin Dog, after listening to the DWO Cast Christmas 2008 Special I really wish Trevor would have used you as a permanent fixture. All is well, at least I have three podcast to listen to instead of two...


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 30 2008 @ 01:57 PM
By: doogie448

Content:

Ok I'll send this thread off track.
Does anyone else think it's not a coincidence that Jonas Quinn, the guy who plays Robin Hood, is leaving his hit show just at the same time that Doctor Who is being recast? He's young and seems to be a good actor. He wouldn't have been the dude I would have thrown out there, but hey.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 30 2008 @ 02:20 PM
By: deckard973

Content:

Isnt it Jonas Armstrong on Robin Hood? I think Jonas Quinn is Stargate.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 30 2008 @ 05:05 PM
By: doogie448

Content:

Doh!
You know who I meant. Oops!


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: December 30 2008 @ 07:28 PM
By: daveac

Content:

[QUOTE BY= doogie448] Doh!
You know who I meant. Oops! [/QUOTE]

If they use anybody from Robin Hood it should be Richard Armitage

Cheers, daveac


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: January 01 2009 @ 05:08 AM
By: DarthSkeptical

Content:

[QUOTE BY= seanhuxter] Cybermen might well be robots, then. But they aren't. Clearly they are part human, part machine, so they need some way to "breathe".

Whatever it was that provided that mechanism was blockable by fine gold dust.

But no, blocking it with just anything might not work. It's possible lead might. Perhaps the density and weight had something to do with it. The system may have been designed to filter almost anything - or more likely, was designed very cleverly to filter anything common they might come up against. Gold being fairly rare in most places, might not have been on the list of things they needed to worry about filtering.[/QUOTE]Yeah, well, the writers of TV Comic would disagree with you. Surely this is . . . The Nadir of the Cybermen:

Apparently, those flowers were strong enough to kill Cybermats, too. Which is impressive, given that there's not that much organic about a Cybermat.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: January 01 2009 @ 09:42 AM
By: President Nice

Content:

[QUOTE BY= seanhuxter]
But no, blocking it with just anything might not work. It's possible lead might. Perhaps the density and weight had something to do with it.
Sean.[/QUOTE]
Didn't it mention (possibly in the Revenge of The Cybermen novelisation) that it was the softness of gold that blocked the breathing apparatus? In that case lead might indeed work just as effectively.
Although I do agree with Darth Skeptical that the whole thing is silly. It may have been plausible to start off with but by the time you got to Ace and her slingshot it was just ridiculous.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: January 01 2009 @ 09:47 AM
By: President Nice

Content:

Oh and BTW, I though the episode was pretty good. Better than last year for sure.
Actually I would have liked VotD much much more if it hadn't had any of the Max Capricorn plot in it. Just a straight disaster movie in space would have been brilliant. Someone more talented than me must surely be able to produce a fan version with all the insurance scam details edited out?
And one more thing. I didn't like David Morrissey in the slightest here. Thought he was terribly hammy and overacted like the worst guest stars of the JNT era. Ken Dodd acted better than DM. I've never seen him in anything else and on this performance I hope I never see him in anything again. Just awful, really let the whole thing down.
Now if you'd got the singer Morrissey to play the part, that I'd like to see!


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: January 03 2009 @ 02:48 PM
By: Chase

Content:

When are we going to have the NEXT PRODUCER? True enough, RTD did incredible things from ROSE right on through to MIDNIGHT. It is, however, time, for new blood. RTD’s edict that everything be set on or around Earth and human beings only has gone too far the other way. Proof of this? A great big giant robot towering over an 1851 city firing blasts at people and things. THE NEXT DOCTOR isn’t terrible, nor is it great as DW can be great. It does, however, prove that sometimes, alien stories on alien planets with alien beings can be …better. RTD’s famed “I don’t care about Zogs from the planet Zog facing the Zog Monster” is inherently wrong. It is his job to make us care about such things and by setting everything this BIG on Earth, he’s taken away some of the major DANGER. Rewatching some old DW, I noticed the flaws and danger of what he says (and it’s very true in STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION where I cared very little for any of the politics going on far away from Earth), however, however flawed THE WEB PLANET is: it tried to create an alien planet that is so totally alien…and yet I defy anyone to watch it (an episode at a time please!) and not care about at least one of the alien beings in it. THE NEXT DOCTOR: did anyone seriously think the children were going to die? Did anyone seriously think the old men would not die? Did anyone care that the CyberKing was in that robot? Not terrible, but not great like DW can be. Smaller stories, please, with more emotional involvement and situations we can care about again.


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: January 04 2009 @ 05:55 PM
By: Louis

Content:



Chase, you do know that there is a new producer and head writer taking over, right? Steven Moffat it picking up reins of Russell T Davies and is already working on the 2010 series. There are only 4 more specials in 2009 under the wing of RTD.

Cheers,
Louis


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: January 25 2009 @ 07:59 AM
By: Milamber

Content:

The Next Doctor just aired in Australia. Much quicker than the regular seasons do. It was hard to avoid spoilers but I managed.

I loved it. For the first time I really enjoyed the new series cybermen. The cast was strong.

David Morissey was fanstastic. His personality was like Colin Baker but toned down a little, the costume harkened back to the original show and he had a few funny lines and tear jerking scenes.

Dervla Kirwan was very convincing. The companion had a name similar to Rose and the voice of Martha but I'm sure that was just to throw us off track. Personally, I thought the whole thing would be in the Doctor's mind.

The Cyber King was good because it made for a big finale and the CGI was awesome. Deus Ex Machina for sure because we know the Doctor will save the day, but it was still cool.

The thing with the info stamps came out of nowhere, but I can forgive such annoyances because I choose to enjoy TV shows and movies and not dwell on nitpicking them. I understand why most people can't do that. Judging is human nature and it's hard to let go of things that don't really matter but bug us anyway. But it's Doctor Who! TV doesn't get any better!


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: January 25 2009 @ 12:56 PM
By: Linquel

Content:

I don't think I ever wrote a review of this even though I saw it not long after Christmas. I mostly enjoyed this, but it wasn't a great episode. I liked it more than Voyage of the Damned, but it still had some goofy stuff that made little sense. Why kidnap the children when the work they were doing could have been done by anyone? At least in Temple of Doom they needed children because they were small enough to get into the tight mining tunnels. Why keep the old men alive just to retrieve the children. Surely the Cybermen themselves could have brought back the children on their own. Why would Mercy Hardigan be able to mentally over-ride the Cybermen's programming? But I didn't mind the Cyber King because when I originally heard that it was going to be a Victorian-era Cyberman story I was fully expecting there to be some steampunk. In fact, I was hoping for more. I was expecting steampunk cybermen. I was expecting something like, a few Cybermen survived "crashing" on Victorian-era London and they had to convert locals without the benefit of full-blown conversion equipment. I did like David Morrissey, I liked the data record of the ten Doctors, etc. I'd give the story 3 1/2 TARDIS groans out of 5. It's neck-and-neck with Runaway Bride as far as Christmas specials go. I liked the original best and Voyage least. How I rank RB and ND in between varies with my mood.

Mr. Green


The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]

Posted on: June 13 2009 @ 10:28 PM
By: Agent Z

Content:

[QUOTE BY= torchkat] I felt this was the best Christmas special to date. Far, far better than VotD and better than Runaway Bride.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!

Yes, I'm late to the game, still catching up on Who.

I usually dread the Christmas special, so maybe my expectations were lowered going in this time. Maybe.

Still, really enjoyed David Morrissey. The Cyberking was pushing it in the realm of silly, but I have become used to that from RTD.

The shots of all the Doctors made me smile so. Yeah, they know how to fan the flames of fandom, I'll give them that.


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