Subject: From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 14 2009 @ 01:13 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

A new thread for those of us who have decided to watch the entire series from start to finish (I know this is gonna take me years!) so that we can record our thoughts as we go along.

Right, here goes. An Unearthly Child tonight!



Replies:

From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 14 2009 @ 02:29 PM
By: barnabeee

Content:

Be strong Idiom. After that first episode its tough going!

I've just finished watching The Daleks, so will be fun to discuss when you get there! Are you aiming for a story a night? Smile


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 14 2009 @ 02:47 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

More like an epsiode a night what with famly life and all that!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 14 2009 @ 03:06 PM
By: barnabeee

Content:

Probably a great way to watch it actually! Smile I'll look forward to your daily posts!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 14 2009 @ 05:43 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

So, epsiode one. What can I say. Amazing still, isn't it? I've seen it before more than once but was still totally absorbed by it. It's all there in that first episode. The mystery, the strange science, the alien nature that lies beneath the seemingly benign surface of the old man. And that cliff-hanger - the TARDIS in a deserted landscape that could be anywhere, anywhen and then a shadow falls across the door. No words, no screams, no monsters just a single shadow that will lay across the following years and my childhood and now my adulthood.I've started.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 14 2009 @ 11:16 PM
By: Doctor Whoovie

Content:

As documented on threads elsewhere I started doing this about 5 weeks ago.

Unearthly child through the sensorites completed.

On episode two of the reign of terror at the moment.

I have been loading them on my ipod and watching them at the gym.

Good luck guys.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 15 2009 @ 04:01 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie] As documented on threads elsewhere I started doing this about 5 weeks ago.
Unearthly child through the sensorites completed.
On episode two of the reign of terror at the moment.
I have been loading them on my ipod and watching them at the gym.
Good luck guys.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, you were one of the main inspirations for this. I planning on watching with a break between each episode - the way it was originally designed to be watched, I suppose. To akllow the cliffhanger to wash over me for a while.
I created this thread as I thought it might be easier for all of us to record our thoughts if we had one thread per Doctor becuse I know that we'll be watching at different speeds.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 15 2009 @ 09:27 AM
By: barnabeee

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie] As documented on threads elsewhere I started doing this about 5 weeks ago.

Unearthly child through the sensorites completed.

On episode two of the reign of terror at the moment.

[/QUOTE]

Have you posted on The Sensorites yet, Whoovie? I saw your post on Keys of Marinus.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 15 2009 @ 09:30 AM
By: barnabeee

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Idiom] So, epsiode one. What can I say. Amazing still, isn't it? I've seen it before more than once but was still totally absorbed by it. It's all there in that first episode. The mystery, the strange science, the alien nature that lies beneath the seemingly benign surface of the old man. And that cliff-hanger - the TARDIS in a deserted landscape that could be anywhere, anywhen and then a shadow falls across the door. No words, no screams, no monsters just a single shadow that will lay across the following years and my childhood and now my adulthood.I've started.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. Its a genius piece of television and never gets old! Absolutely amazing stuff.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 15 2009 @ 06:06 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Funny story this as it is really a three-part story tagged onto a one-parter. I've heard a lot of people describe most of it (with the exception of episode one) as quite hard going. And while in general, I'd agree that it isn't the strongest story, I feel that watching it in short twenty-moinute episode chunks helps a lot.
I love the tense atmosphere which is aided by the strangely almost carved faces of the tribe (especially Kal and the old woman) and by being black and white (you can definitely get a way with a lot when everything is cast inn shadow and the programme makers really took advantage of this). I love the pairing of Ian (logical, strong,Science teacher) and Barbara (intuitive, sensitive,history teacher)and their relaistic reactions at being transported into the past - Ian's initial disbelief and the almost hysterical moment that Barbara has as she comes across a dead animal but then immediately proves herself to be the conscience of this TARDIS team by refusing to leave the injured tribesman behind. I love the whole Ian-Doctor locking of horns trying to see who will be the Alpha male of the crew (it sort of reminds me of the 9th Doctor's first encounter with Captain Jack). The Doctor - well, what do we make of him so far: ammoral (willing to kidnap the two teachers and sacrifice the tribesman so that they can escape) but also very human (apologising for getting everybody into this mess and looking more bedraggled by the minute). Interestingly, as well the credits at the end name him as Dr.Who (I wonder when he becomes just the Doctor - must watch out for that).
OK so it's not the most plot driven of stories but watching it part by part it does maintain a real sense of urgency and danger for the travellers. Part three for me was definitely stronger than part two but I'm still enjoying it all overall and not watching the clock. One more part to go then Daleks, me hearties!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 16 2009 @ 10:31 AM
By: barnabeee

Content:

Great thoughts there Idiom. The characters are very strong and well-rounded even at this early stage - and the rock scene is still quite shocking.

There's a lot of atmosphere, helped by the Black & White, of course. Its not something I pull out to watch a lot - but enjoy it whever I do.

[QUOTE BY= Idiom] One more part to go then Daleks, me hearties![/QUOTE]

Well, almost-2 parts and then a plunger! But I get your drift Wink


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 16 2009 @ 06:04 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

That's story one done. Yes, definitely more enjoyable and pacy when left with a gap between episodes. Good to see Ian giving up the Alpha male position to the Doctor after the Doctor manages to prove Kal's guilt and Za's innocence using his wits alone. A flash of the genius to come.
Again some real reactions with the Doctor and Susan almost trampling Barbara in their rush to escape. Also good to see some physical consequences of the action with the TARDIS crew dirty, sweat-stained and torn clothes.
A dark, violent episode overall and the first sign of some peace between the crew of the time machine as their pool their resources to escape the tribe.
Also good to see a cliffhanger pull you into the next story straight away - keeps that narrative thread and makes each individual story part of the whole.
looking forward to the next one.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 19 2009 @ 02:22 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

A day or two off and now I've started the Daleks. I think that I've stated in other posts that what I really like about classic Who is its slower pace. That it takes its time to tell a story. It's the main reason that I tend to criticise moden Who - that it is in a rush and sometimes starts or wraps up too quickly at the expense of the main storyline. I'm sure that if the Daleks were re-made today then the whole first episode would be done as the pre-title scene. Some may think that that is a good thing but me I love a story that slowly unwarps itself piece by piece paying geat attention to detail.
Here the planet (the first alien planet that Doctor Who viewres were shown in the series and only the second story!)is revealed little by little. The petrified forest, the tress that do not move, flowers that crumble at the touch, an alien lifeform made of metal, a vast, seemingly empty alien city (again being in black and white, the director is able to get away with a lot more).
The story focuses on the TARDIS crew; there are consequences which run over from the previous story. Still the teachers do not trust the Doctor and rightfully so - what an egotistical, self-centred old man he is. For me, this reveals that Ian and Barbara are the first humans that the Doctor has travelled with. He has yet to be humanised by his companions - he is used to making all of the decisions and this is why he clashes with Ian.And yet also, there are glimpses of Ian's humour and the relationship that will develop between them.
I loved the glimpses of the TARDIS interior and the food machine (do we ever see this again?).
Piece by piece. These are great story makers and it is almost constructed like a Hitchcock film with just a glimpse of a hand and later that plunger!
And I try to put myself in the minds of the original viewers who had never seen a Dalek, what must they have imagined at the end of that plunger.
Great, great stuff.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 20 2009 @ 10:56 AM
By: adeola

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Idiom]And I try to put myself in the minds of the original viewers who had never seen a Dalek, what must they have imagined at the end of that plunger.
Great, great stuff.[/QUOTE]

I was one of those viewers Exclaimation Having to wait a whole week ( a long time when you're eight) to find that out had me on tenterhooks the whole time. And I've said elsewhere (I think) that I had occasional bad dreams about the Daleks right into adulthood. Rolling Eyes

Good luck on your quest - for that's what you've embarked on!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 20 2009 @ 03:39 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Thanks Adeola!
Some thoughts on The Daleks episode 2: SPOILERS.

Daleks! Hooray! They really were born fully formed and 46 years later are really not much different to the way they were then. I think this accounts for their continued popularity. If you look at the main villains in other shows: the Kligons in Star Trek, The Wraith in Atlantis, etc. they change, become humanised, dilluted.
This may make them more interesting as characters in some cases but, to my mind, makes them less successful villains. Not so the Daleks.They remain today pretty much faithful to the original concept.
Loved the Doctor's first confrontation with them. "Stay in the light!" The contrast of the (seemingly)frail old man in the light and the cold, mechanical nazis in the dark.
The characters still seem so human: The Doctor's continued self-interest, Susan's fear, Ian's frustration and resignation that he cannot be the one to save them and that there is nothing else that he can do but send the young girl out on her own on this alien planet. He still at this point seems the natural leader of the group and is the first person ever to be exterminated!
Another, teasing glimpse of the Thals - first a hand, now a cloak. Piece by piece.
And a great episode ending. Susan framed against the door of the Tardis console room by a violent streak of lightening in the petrified forest outside and her bravery at leaving all she knows behind to go out and face...
well, tere's the next episode for you...onward!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 20 2009 @ 07:06 PM
By: Mr. Magister

Content:

I always love the conversation between Ian and Barbara as they disucss Susan Foreman and how frustrated she is at school, then the montage flashbacks of her debating Ian on Science and discounting part of Barbara's history lesson (I can't remember the particulars off the top of my head). As you watch from Ian and Barbara's eyes, before us all we see that there's a much bigger mystery at large besides just an awkward school girl.

PS - Congrats Idiom for being mentioned on the latest podshock!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 21 2009 @ 01:53 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Mr. Magister] PS - Congrats Idiom for being mentioned on the latest podshock![/QUOTE]
Really Oops! Haven't heard it yet as still a few behind - just started 143.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 26 2009 @ 05:25 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

Daleks episodes 3 and 4: SPOILERS!
A few days' break but I'm in no rush and actually this way the cliffhangers become more effective and the longer stories don't tend to drag.
I liked the fact that episode three while showing us the dreadful outcome of the Doctor's selfishness - the fact that the whole crew is suffeing from radiation sickness - also shifted its focus to the Thals. This felt similar to An Unearthly Child in that we are shown a new society and the interactions between the tribe. Here we are presented with three or four main characters and their motivations: their hopes, fears and, in some cases, unrequited love. I felt that a real effort had been made to present these characters as fully-formed people. Again one of my complaints about the epsiode length of the modern series is that supporting characters (with the exception of recurring characters such as Wilf) come across often as two-dimensional and just serve the purpose of Dalek fodder.
Here I felt a connection with the characters immediately which heightened the betrayal of the Daleks in the Ambush.
I am somewhat bemused by Susan who in some senses acts like a normal teenager but in others still portrays that alien weirdness that first led Ian and Barbara to become interested in her. She laughs hysterically at Barbara's suggestion that there might be something inside the Daleks casings and grins and winks as she sets up a diversion later so that the crew can escape. Bemused but not bored as I like this sense of being slightly off-kilter makes her interesting.
Ian continues to take the role of leader. I know that some have accused him of sexism and while this is porbably true, he is still a man of his times and the fact that we can watch with hindsight makes his character feel more authentic (it was this autheticity that I felt was lacking from Torchwood when Captain Jack kisses another male in front of a group of armed forces officers - I'm sorry but wouldn't the natural reaction of the observers during the 1940s have been somewhat different - for me overlaying our modern acceptance of homosexuality onto these characters didn't work).
Barbara is the character that hasn't quite developed as much as I'd like her to yet but I'm sure this will come.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 30 2009 @ 12:56 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

The Daleks: Episode 5 - SPOILERS!
Some thoughts:
1. Amorality - we've already seen it from the Doctor in the Unearthly Child with the injured tribesman, his kidnapping of Ian and Barbara and in the Daleks with his lies about the fluid link and now we see more evidence of it. His willingness to interfere in the culture of the Thals, to change a predominantly pacificist community into a group who are willing to risk their own lives just to help the TARDIS crew get back the fluid link. It makes me wonder about this Doctor, so far relatively unchanged by the companions who will influence him over the years. Here, you really can see the renegade timelord who was willing to steal a time capsule from his own kind and interfere in the lives of the people he meets. It makes you think about the things that he might have done before we met him (are there any novels about the Doctor pre-series?). It's no wonder the Time Lords disaprove of / dislike him so much. So far there's not much to recommend him as a humane character.
2. Barbara's siding with the Doctor surprised me, I thought that her understanding of history and her compassionate side would put her more into Ian and Susan's camp but her fear of remaining and eventually being hunted down by the Daleks overides any sense of morality.
3. The Daleks - so great before Davros; interplay between Daleks is great to watch and their just complete coldness and evil: their willingness to sacrifice each other and even contemplate another neutron bomb.
4. How good was the whirlpool effect for 1963! The mutations made me remember the underground tunnels that the Doctor has to go through in genesis and Davros's discarded experiments almost twenty years later.
5. Is it just me of do the Thal women love like Playboy Bunnies in their costumes?


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 30 2009 @ 04:37 PM
By: Louis

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Idiom] A new thread for those of us who have decided to watch the entire series from start to finish (I know this is gonna take me years!) so that we can record our thoughts as we go along.
Right, here goes. An Unearthly Child tonight![/QUOTE]

I remember doing this myself back sometime circa 1992-1993. To this day, I still consider it the best experience in terms of watching Doctor Who.

The way I did it was one episode a day, that's episode or part, not complete story. It's really a trip of a lifetime.

Cheers,
Louis


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: April 30 2009 @ 05:32 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Louis]

The way I did it was one episode a day, that's episode or part, not complete story. [/QUOTE]
Yes, the way it was meant to be watched originally!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 01 2009 @ 06:28 PM
By: Chase

Content:

So what story are you on now? I recently watched all of the First, Second, and Third Doctor. And I just loved it all really. The only rough going was GALAXY FOUR and THE HIGHLANDERS. I did the reconstructions and that helped a great deal with the missing eps. I found AN UNEARTHLY CHILD great all the way through, the first episode totally fantastic. I also broke up the stories, not by choice but because of other circumstances in watching THIRD DOCTOR stories first, then going into the FIRST, followed by almost all the SECOND Doctor, then the rest of the FIRST and then some remaining THIRD Doctor's. I found THE DALEKS so much better than I remembered when I watched it all in one sitting YEARS AND YEARS ago. It was much more fast paced than I recalled. I also liked EDGE OF DESTRUCTION.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 02 2009 @ 07:27 PM
By: Doctor Whoovie

Content:

Well I just finished Season 1 (the real season 1!) last night with the final installment of reign of Terror. Overall the series was fairly enjoyable, if a little slow paced.

One thing very noticable was the intent to educate. With science in the futuristic episodes and well, History in the historicals.

It struck me that the reason there is so much emphasis on "you cannot change history" is because the show was meant to impart historical information to the viewing public. Therefore established facts, such as X was killed in the French revelution or the Aztecs practiced human sacrifice had to be upheld so that the educational charter would be fulfilled. It is not acceptable to have X saved in the story just because he was a jolly nice guy.
This requirement about changing history becomes less important in later series once the "historicals" have disappeared and the pretence of eductaion has been dropped.

It also struck me that much of the 'Science" in the futuristic episodes was bogus. Especially the bit about about the Sensorites fully dilated eyes and being afraid of the dark.

Reviews on the individual stories will follow when I have a bit more time.

Let me finish by saying that on watching the first series the story which has made the most impression on me was "Marco Polo" partly because I was completely unaware of the story content before I started and partly because of the fantastic reconstruction by Loose Cannon. (I wonder if I would have enjoyed the actual episodes as much if they had been available)

I did enjoy the first episode and the Daleks, but I had seen (and/or read) these stories previously so they did not stand out so markedly.

BTW David Whitackers "Doctor Who and the Daleks" (my copy is autographed by Tom Baker for some obscure reason) starts with Ian and Barbara meeting Susan and the Doctor after a traffic accident in the fog, and totally bypassed the Uneartly Child.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 03 2009 @ 02:29 PM
By: Chase

Content:

IMO it is a shame that the historical bits were dropped from the show. That left it with only, as you say, the bogus science and that quickly degenerated into Z grade sci fic (RESCUE, the future parts of THE CHASE, GALAXY FOUR, THE SAVAGES, and btw I like all of those --admittedly THE CHASE for so bad it's funny reasons) and from there into Invasion of the Week and that DW never shook off. From Troughton's early stories through to the current DW show PLANET OF THE DrEAD, it's all about invasion of aliens for the most part. The historicals and the educational thing gave DW a charm and interest that is lacking in the invasion of the week philosophy. True that some stories like ENEMY OF THE WORLD, THE MIND ROBBER, THE CELESITAL TOYMAKER, BLACK ORCHID, the Tennant/Donna bee murder mystery, and others try to get to do other things and mostly do but they're mostly the exception. DW became a monster of the week, invasion of the week show from it's beginnings as a TRUE time travel show.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 04 2009 @ 01:52 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Chase] So what story are you on now? [/QUOTE]
About to finish the Daleks (AKA the Mutants) - going very slowly, I know, but real life creeps in and I only have the chance to do a couple of epsiodes per week. Still, I am really enjoying it, this way.

[QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie] Well I just finished Season 1 (the real season 1!) [/QUOTE]
Well done! the rate at which I'm going that might be around 2010!

[QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie]BTW David Whitackers "Doctor Who and the Daleks" (my copy is autographed by Tom Baker for some obscure reason) starts with Ian and Barbara meeting Susan and the Doctor after a traffic accident in the fog, and totally bypassed the Uneartly Child.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I remember this! It was one of the first Doctor Who books that I read when I was a wee lad! I can picture the front cover even now. Hasn't this been released as an audio book?


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 04 2009 @ 01:54 PM
By: barnabeee

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie]BTW David Whitackers "Doctor Who and the Daleks" (my copy is autographed by Tom Baker for some obscure reason) starts with Ian and Barbara meeting Susan and the Doctor after a traffic accident in the fog, and totally bypassed the Uneartly Child.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE BY= Idiom]
Yes, I remember this! It was one of the first Doctor Who books that I read when I was a wee lad! I can picture the front cover even now. Hasn't this been released as an audio book?[/QUOTE]

IIRC, it was actually the very first Doctor Who novelisation published - hence that opening!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 04 2009 @ 05:07 PM
By: T Baker(notTom)

Content:

[QUOTE BY= barnabeee] [QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie]BTW David Whitackers "Doctor Who and the Daleks" (my copy is autographed by Tom Baker for some obscure reason) starts with Ian and Barbara meeting Susan and the Doctor after a traffic accident in the fog, and totally bypassed the Uneartly Child.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE BY= Idiom]
Yes, I remember this! It was one of the first Doctor Who books that I read when I was a wee lad! I can picture the front cover even now. Hasn't this been released as an audio book?[/QUOTE]

IIRC, it was actually the very first Doctor Who novelisation published - hence that opening![/QUOTE]

Yes, That's right!

Because it was one of three books being released at the time (the others were "The Crusaders"(by David Whitaker) and "The Zarbi" (by Bill Strutton))

When those books were being done there were no plans to make any more of them and the two David Whitaker books had an alternate start (and ending) as opposed to the actual episodes. The idea was to have a self-contained story and in "The Daleks" he couldn't really explain all that happened easily in "An Unearthly Child / The Tribe of Gum" so the new back-story was created.

BTW: The three books mentioned were released in May of 1973. The next books that came out were in the following year because of the popularity of the first three.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 04 2009 @ 05:16 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

The Daleks - Episodes 6 and 7: SPOILERS

All done. Wow! A real trek. The seven parts certainly give a real epic quality to the whole story. Some thoughts:
1. Barbara and Ganatus - very nicely done - the subtle hints of the beginning of a relationship. It lends credibility to the idea that the crew have spent a substantial amount of time on Skaro. I’m now beginning to warm more to Barbara, although I do feel that she is still the most underdeveloped of the main characters.
2. The Doctor: I was a pioneer amongst my own people once. – What does this refer to? Pioneer in what field? Presumably before he became a renegade?
3. The action scenes – pacey and well shot with characters racing in and out of shot adding to the suspense and momentum (I saw the origins of new Battlestar Galactica here!).
4. The first real ‘cliff-hanger’ at the end of episode 6 and its resolution through the sacrifice of one of the Thals. The Thals are a very underused race in Doctor Who and I liked them a lot here. The only other episode that I remember them in was Planet of the Daleks. Was that the Thals? Had they become soldiers by that point?
5. Was this the end of the Daleks? If so then how do they invade the Earth later? Is this question ever answered?
Overall, a strong story that created the legend of Doctor Who and the Daleks. A strong 8 out of 10 from me. Looking forward to the next story – only two parts which will make a refreshing counterpoint to the Daleks. Allons-y!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 05 2009 @ 11:09 AM
By: barnabeee

Content:

Glad you enjoyed it again. It really is a cracking story!

The Thals do indeed show up (far more militarised!) in Planet of the Daleks. They are also in Genesis of the Delaks as well, of course, in their pre-neutron bomb state! (Of course that story rather contrdicts The Daleks, but ah well - can't have everything!) Smile

Big Finish have used the Thals a lot though.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 06 2009 @ 03:05 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

Edge of Destruction - Episode 1: SPOILERS!
A nicely, claustrophobic piece that, watching it now, reminds me a little of one of those Star Trek or Buffy episodes which begin with everybody having lost their memories. Everybody is acting just slightly unusually – the words are there but it is as if the emotions have disappeared initially. Some thoughts:
1. I can’t take you back, Susan – the Doctor’s words as he lays semi-conscious on the floor. What are the implications of this? That Susan didn’t really want to leave Gallifrey when her grandfather did or at the very least that she wanted to return.
2. Ian’s ripped cardigan sleeve – just a little thing, I know but I like the visible physical consequences from the previous story. These first stories always end up with the crew looking as if they really have lived through these adventures with their untidy hair, smudged faces and ripped clothes.
3. Barbara is beginning to grow on me now. She is the one that thinks out of the box and yet is constantly laughed at by the others. Susan laughed when she suggested there might be something living inside the Dalek casing; Ian is equally unsupportive at her suggestion that something may have boarded the ship.
4. The ship itself looks great with its long rows of computer banks and the other rooms which we are now beginning to see. I laughed at the drinks machine, though, which appeared to have two choices: water and milk!
5. The conflict between the Gallifreyans and the humans. Glad to see that this is being addressed and not brushed over nor gradually forgotten. What interested me particularly is the reminder that not only do Ian and Barbara not trust the Doctor but that the opposite is also true. The Doctor was very suspicious of their interest in Susan back at the beginning of an Unearthly Child – it has remained. Does he suspect them of more than just a teacher’s casual interest? Is this the paranoia of an escaped exile who believes that he may be being followed/hunted down?


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 07 2009 @ 05:07 PM
By: Chase

Content:

I like Edge of Destruction I really do. Is there a scene where the Doctor is sitting down outside a room and we see that in the TARDIS (or rather the set) there is a blocked out, blacked out window made to look like the Tardis wall?

Anyway I like this story but if you disect it too much, it really really doesn't make any sense. I mean just see ABOUT TIME 1 for how illogical this story really is. Yet..something about it just rings true with me! Why? I don't know! Smile

It's pretty creepy for one thing but again, creepy would be more creepy if things happened for a reason rather than just happening because they seem creeepy at the time. For the TARDIS to "warn" the Doctor and company this way makes little sense. Perhaps the tardis has never done this thing before or maybe there's something else wrong with it.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 08 2009 @ 07:16 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Edge of Destruction Episode 2: SPOILERS
When it comes down to it, I think that this story is all about domesticity, about portraying the TARDIS as a home and its crew as a family. Now that the producers know that they are in for the long haul, I believe that maybe they saw the unsustainability of conflict on board the TARDIS (just a pity JNT did not realise this a bit sooner all those years later), that to stick with the programme, maybe people would have to learn to love the Doctor a little more and by the end of the episode (even though he has threatened to thrown the teachers off of the ship), the old man has softened.
Especially towards Barbara, who really comes into her own here and, again, thinking outside the box, realises that it is the TARDIS itself trying to communicate. For the first time, the Doctor begins to feel a certain amount of intellectual respect for these people whom he has kidnapped instead of just distrust.
But, yes domesticity is a key word for me here: the focus on all of the TARDIS facilities: the drinks machine, the beds, the bandages that become whiter as the wound heals; the crew wandering around in their jim-jams; even the main threat in the first episode is just a simple pair of scissors and what does it all come down to in the end? A stuck button! That happens to my central heating!I thought to myself as I watched.
All of these elements combine to create the family and by the end of the episode, once the sinister, dark lighting has disappeared and the TARDIS is back to normal, it no longer looks cold and clinical to the viewer but instead looks cosy, the way it should, the ship that carries and protects them, home.
It even ends with the family enjoying themselves and having a snowball fight.
Now, on to unchartered territory for me: Marco Polo - I've really been looking forward to this one.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 09 2009 @ 12:04 PM
By: Chase

Content:

Yes I agree with you, Idiom, that they are a family by episode's end but respectfully, I can't agree that this is all about domesticity throughout. Sure the TARDIS is like their big home but really in reality it's not. It was just a spaceship or thought of and presented as a spaceship. It certainly did't seem to be THAT much bigger on the inside than the outside ala INVASION OF TIME or CASTROVALVA. As for the conflict, almost none of it is based on any kind of REAL character stuff--it's almost all the TARDIS trying to communicate and once that calms down, the Doctor is nice to Barbara, only because she solved the problem, sort of. Smile Anyway, it ends nicely and the Family is tenous at best at this stage, shakey at best really. Marco Polo will seem to cement that even more. As for the JNT years, I think some of the conflict in his first three or even four years was justified. The dynamic between Adric, Tegan, Nyssa and Doc5 was very similar to the dynamic between Ian, Barbara, Susan, and the First, all for differen reasons and the conflicts arose out of their characters and personalities and was really quite good. Later with TUrlough, not my fav character, how it would end was really what it was all about. They seemed to not be able to decide how to make Tegan react to Turlough. And the Doctor to Turough?Bemusement? I think his reaction is all wrong to be honest. It should be either the way the 9th reacted to Adam (who in the original script only sent the info to the past to save his father from a disease which leads into FATHER'S DAY, giving Rose some ideas) or treat him like Capt Jack, that Turlough had some value in him and use that Instead, he just ignores Turlough who literally is behind him ready to kill him or he's just stupid.

As for Peri and Doc, I love how they started...but the arguing went on for far too long and is far too annoying and frankly both of the actors aren't strong enough to pull it off AND make us like them. By the time of TIMELASH I wanted Peri to either die or lose her voice and the Doc to regenerate already...but then we got TRIAL and TIME AND THE RANI after that! That's another story.

Thing is; the Doc, first and his first companions were just as dysfunctional as most of the later ones. That said, there were undercurrents of things that were nver said, such as when Ian and Barbara left andthe Doctor didn't tell them how he really felt about them going but just got mad but underneath it was to cover his sad feelings of missing them and not wating them to go.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 09 2009 @ 12:12 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Some interesting points, Chase. Not having seen a lot of the First Doctor yet, I may have to come back and discuss these points again with you at a later date.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 12 2009 @ 03:54 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Marco Polo Episode one: SPOILERS!!!![QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie]
Let me finish by saying that on watching the first series the story which has made the most impression on me was "Marco Polo" partly because I was completely unaware of the story content before I started and partly because of the fantastic reconstruction by Loose Cannon. (I wonder if I would have enjoyed the actual episodes as much if they had been available)
[/QUOTE]
I've only watched one episode so far but have to complete agree with Doctor Whovie about Marco Polo. maybe it's because I've never seen it before but it has a remarkably fresh and new feel to it. It's gripped me immediately.
My thoughts:
1. It must have been a temptation when first writing a time travel show to have sent the TARDIS crew to all of those big, (maybe a touch clichéd) historical events such as Nazi Germany, the Roman Empire, the Wild West - and, of course, as we all know Doctor Who does this in time (and quite rightly as it would be a shame to ignore these eras!). However, I admire the bravery of the production team in chosing a relatively unknown period of history: Marco Polo's tenure in Cathay. Educationally it's interesting for this reason but also dramatically as I have little knowledge of the supporting characters (and an interseting cast they are so far) - I have no idea whether they are based on real people or not and, therefore, no knowledge of whether they will live or die. For me, the closest the modern series has come to investigating these little back alleys of history is The Girl in the Fireplace (just a shame it wasn't a pure historical -though maybe this story wouldn't have stood that test so maybe it's just a shame that there are no longer any pure historicals!).
2. Beautiful costumes especially in colour (as seen in the Loose Canon reconstruction).
3. love the running joke of the Doctor's continually forgetting Ian's surname (a precursor to the Mickey jokes of the new series). But also this general air of frailty, how he quickly succumbs to altitude sickness. This incarnation of the Doctor is already very close to the end of his days.
4. Susan's comment that she has had many homes in many places alludes to a fair few adventures with her grandfather before they landed in 1960's London.
5. The ammorality of Polo himself and how he tricks the crew into stealing the TARDIS for his own ends. A very interesting premise.
Good stuff so far!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 13 2009 @ 12:37 AM
By: Chase

Content:

Marco Polo: I agree with most of what you said. The Doctor however, is frail because he's seen in those days as just an old man, not some very ancient alien man. The amorality and selfishness of Polo is very well done but he's just acting on his own behalf and it's very realistic to me. Ian's name forgotten by the First Doctor is VERY different to the 9th Doctor's name forgetting of Mickey as the 9th Doctor isn't really forgetting Mickey's name but just trying to insult him, make fun of him, put him down in front of Rose, and make himself look better. With the First Doctor, it's really forgetting...and even if not, it makes the Doctor look human and feel flawed...all in a good character way without him truly insulting Ian.

This story stands out really well. I don't know about the bravery of the show...it really took chances though. A great deal of movies and TV shows (although maybe not too much of the later) detailed Marco Polo's supposed adventures including 1930s films, some with similar themes here (an unwanted marriage for one). Of course, Marco would turn up in two other time travel shows much later, THE TIME TUNNEL in 1966 or 1967 and VOYAGERS! in the 1980s some time. All of these were good episodes.

Glad you enjoyed the first ep. I'm sure you'll like the rest. The thing I like about it is how the TARDIS crew travel for a long time in one time zone and how the adventure crosses over many, many days, even a few weeks. The educational part comes out and there are some brilliant sequences of just story telling and danger and storms...

again something the new series could never, or rather, would never do. GIRL IN THE FIREPLACE also takes the opposite stance by making someone from history, who's morality is dubious at best and making her some kind of saint.

Anyway hope you like the rest. I watched this some time ago but it sticks in my memory as a very entertaining, DW-ish or not, storyline...with lots of fun stuff and dramatic stuff too. Not once does it feel overlong or tired...unlike the Doctor and at one point he gets hysterical! Also like the condensation thing in the TARDIS...


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 13 2009 @ 04:30 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Chase] The Doctor however, is frail because he's seen in those days as just an old man, not some very ancient alien man.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I think I have a tendancy to try to fit the earlier stuff into the mythos of the later stuff - but then that's part of the fun of it, isn't it? Now, looking back, we could also say that this Doctor is reaching the end of his incarnation (even if that wasn't the programme makers' intentions).
[QUOTE BY= Chase] Ian's name forgotten by the First Doctor is VERY different to the 9th Doctor's name forgetting of Mickey as the 9th Doctor isn't really forgetting Mickey's name but just trying to insult him, make fun of him, put him down in front of Rose, and make himself look better. With the First Doctor, it's really forgetting...and even if not, it makes the Doctor look human and feel flawed...all in a good character way without him truly insulting Ian.
[/QUOTE]
For me, it is very similar to the Ninth/Tenth Doctor's attitude to Mickey. The threat of the other male. For the latter incarnations, it's all about/for Rose but for the first Doctor it's about showing who's the Alpha Male to outsiders. I agree it does make him more 'human' and flawed but I do think that it's a very intelligent type of power play. The Doctor cannot prove his superiority physically, therefore he does it intellectually: your name is not important, therefore, you are not important ...well, important enough to be considered leader, anyway. Still it makes me laugh and reminds me of the new series and I love any connections/elements of continuity like that.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 13 2009 @ 09:29 PM
By: Chase

Content:

Yes I see that fitting that into the mythos but the First Doctor might have been around longer although I don't think he had any gaps between companoins that we know of.

As for the Mickey thing< i can't agree. I don't think the First Doctor was doing it deliberately to show who was boss or show he was the Alpha Male at all. In fact, maybe he did other things to show that but I doubt it. I think there was no doubt he was in charge most of the time simply because the others were out of their depth but physically it was Ian all the way. I can't and we all have our opinions see how in any way that the 9th Doctor Mickey thing is the same at all as the Doctor forgetting Ian's name...and again, it was due to his age or showing his age that his memory was going. Ian thought it was funny at times; Mickey knew why the 9th was doing it and there were no illusions there, it was being mean. In fact, at times, it seemed to me that the First Doctor was annoyed at himself for forgetting Ian's name.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 15 2009 @ 03:07 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Marco Polo: Episodes 2 and 3: SPOILERS!!!I continue to be entranced and enchanted by this story. It unfolds gently with a great attention to characterisation and, as Doctor Whoovie, mentions above, its mission to educate. I loved the story of the Hashshashin as related by Ping Cho (the fact that episode three took the time out to relate this tale is something that you would rarely see these days, and I’m sure that some would describe it as padding, but I love this leisurely approach to storytelling ). This slower pace suits the chronology of the narrative – the crew has already been here for a week (if not much longer), and as Chase mentioned above and I have said in other threads, I always enjoy the stories where the Doctor and his companions spend a length of time in a particular place. To me this adds credibility, this is the type of person who I believe the Doctor to be: he takes his time, gets to know the locals, enjoys learning about the culture and traditions (this is the type of Doctor who would catch a tourist bus and sit chatting to all of the passengers; the one we saw in Midnight). Already I see so many links between the first and tenth Doctor (probably because I’m watching these adventures exclusively and I’ll see different connections when I get to the second Doctor) and I always enjoy this sense of continuity.
I continue to be intrigued by the character of Marco Polo himself; the ambiguity of his moral conduct. I'm predicting that sooner of later he’ll see the error of his ways, but I’m not sure and I love this not being certain about the resolution of the adventure (I’ve been watching the Wire too much!).


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 15 2009 @ 11:20 PM
By: Aurelius76

Content:

Have decided to throw my hat into the ring as well. Have watched none of the 1st or 2nd Doctors at all (sad to say) so this is very exciting. Am starting AN UNEARTHLY CHILD tonight, so I'm abit behind the rest of you. Am trying not to read any of the posts regarding espisodes I haven't watched, so we'll see how it goes. Let the journey begin!!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 16 2009 @ 04:16 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Aurelius76] Have decided to throw my hat into the ring as well. Have watched none of the 1st or 2nd Doctors at all (sad to say) so this is very exciting. Am starting AN UNEARTHLY CHILD tonight, so I'm abit behind the rest of you. Am trying not to read any of the posts regarding espisodes I haven't watched, so we'll see how it goes. Let the journey begin!![/QUOTE]
Good Luck! I'm loving it and would recommend watching it with a break between each episode - the stories don't seem overlong (even if some of them are 7 episodes!) and I find that the slower pace of the stories works well in short, sharp bursts. But however you do it, I hope that you enjoy it as much as me.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 17 2009 @ 04:47 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

Marco Polo: Episodes 4 and 5: SPOILERS
The more I watch these early epsiodes, the more I realise that the programme is not yet exclusively about the Doctor. The rest of the TARDIS crew(well, almost) are given equal billing. A lot of this story is spent following Ian, the action lead, and Susan, the character for whom the original intended audience could relate. This leaves Barbara, as still, unfortunately, underused (and having seen the Aztecs, I know that this is not always the case but still she remains a bit of a spare wheel).
The story itself continues at a leisurely pace with the crew now having been here for months (well, I think so,anyway - has anybody ever worked out the time frame for this story?).
Although I feel that Episode 4 added little to the story, I am still enjoying it thoroughly. In particular, the fact that there is no sonic screwdriver or any other technobabble used to conveniently help the crew each time they face a dilemma. No, instead they have to use their brains and whatever they can find around them in this society: for example, exploding bamboo canes to help scare off the attacking bandits. In today's Who I am sometimes disappointed that the Doctor (in great A team fashion) is able to knock up a device from the junk laying around which is conveniently suited to the occasion - once or twice as a plot device to move the story along this is acceptable but I personally feel that it has been overused in the present series.
Anyway, slight moan over. If there is anybody out there who has never seen/listened to this, try to make the time as it truly is an adventure that puts the 'classic' into Classic Who.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 19 2009 @ 03:20 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

Marco Polo: Episodes 6 and 7
I won’t write in any spoilers in this one, just in case you haven’t seen this and want the ending to be a surprise.
Overall, I am going to say what an incredible story and what a crying shame that it no longer exists in full! Fun, educational, exciting and now that the groundwork of the first three stories has been laid, the series can really settle down to portraying the time travellers as a team.
I thought the supporting characters were very well-drawn, especially the surprising Kublai Khan. And IMO the Doctor always works well as the royal courtier - these are some of the stories which I’ve enjoyed most, when this charming, diplomatic character shows how well he can mix with the great and the famous (The Curse of Peladon; The Girl in the Fireplace; The Marian Conspiracy).
Oh and I really didn’t expect the outcome of the Backgammon game.
Truly , brilliant. Long and brilliant. You really feel that you have lived the long months in the thirteenth century with the crew. For me an excellent 8 out of ten. Recommended!
But alas! No cliffhanger! No clue as to next time. Onward.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 20 2009 @ 11:21 AM
By: cybercolin

Content:

I started a blog about watching and reviewing every episode but now i've found this thread! Twisted Evil Nevermind!

I think its a lot of fun going back, watching and finding out all you can about the episodes. I've already learned a lot of things I didn't know about Doctor Who. For me personally, i've only seen a episode apiece of Hartnell and Troughton, before I started this journey, so i'm approaching the early episodes with a fresh (sort of) mind!

Anyway, i'm up to Marco Polo also and i'm going to be listening to the audio AND reading the novel to fill in those missing pieces!

Here's the blog for anyone intrested.

Cheers


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 20 2009 @ 02:11 PM
By: Aurelius76

Content:

AN UNEARTHLY CHILD

What else to say about this episode that hasn’t been said already? Nonetheless, a few comments and mere observations …

In this first episode of episodes, we find not one Timelord but two—the Doctor and Susan. The Doctor, or “Grandfather,” is very alien to us, not the Doctor we have come to know; he is cold and calculating; he is suspicious of humans and distrusts them for they seem foreign to him, and he is desperately frantic to keep the secret of both the TARDIS and their presence a secret, going so far as to “force” Ian and Barbara to come along (which, BTW, they should do more of instead of companions being enamored with the Doctor). Susan seems more like the Doctor as we know him—curious, kind, bright yet naïve. It seems too that her relationship with Grandfather isn’t on the best of terms—she seems frightened of him and in the Cave of Skulls, she clings to Ian not Grandfather and there are several scenes where the Doctor is quite curt with her and/or downright mean.

The heart of the episode is simple—the ability to make fire, and rule the tribe not the world. It does, at times feel a tad drawn out, but overall the story is well-paced and quite enjoyable.

RATING: 10 out of 10


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 23 2009 @ 06:43 AM
By: Doctor Whoovie

Content:

Planet of the giants (spoilers!)
--------------------------------

Watched this last week, overall was quite a weak story. I am not entirely sure how original it would have seemed at the time, but the whole giant prop thing seems over done these days.

It struck me that the TARDIS crew were not actually necessary for the plot at all.
Forester kills Farrow. Makes a phoney call to Whitehall. Telephone operator realizes it isn't really Farrow and ulitmately gets the police to go and investgate. Our Heroes are merely observers.

The insecticide only seems to be present to ensure that none of the props - Worms, ants etc have to be realistically animated.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 23 2009 @ 07:05 AM
By: Doctor Whoovie

Content:

THe Dalek invasion of Earth
----------------------------

Re-watching this for the ?th time.
It strikes me that the preduction values in this story far exceed anything seen previously in Doctor Who.

The opening scenes, seem to show that the interior of the TARDIS has been significantly reconfigured versus
anything seen before (even the end of the previous episode). Is this correct or is it the same set viewed from a different angle.

I was suprised to here that the Dalek casings were made of Dalekanium (as per Daleks in Manhatten), but noted that the humans said that is what they had decided to call it, not what the Daleks called it.

The second episode shots at various London landmarks are classic, second only to the cybermen shots from Invasion. Funny to see people rushing about in the background on the 'deserted streets' (as pointed out by Verity Lambert in the commentary).

I feel this story has a much snappier pace compared to the original Dalek story and doesn't drag at all.

One critisism is that I cannot really imagine the Robomen controlling everything, just run away and they won't catch you. Since there main weapons seem to be very short whips, they aren't going to stop too many people. I also felt it was a bit too easy for ian to hide on the Dalek saucer.

I decide to watch the episodes this time with the original SFX (since it is a watch from the beginning) but have watched it previously with the new effects.

I have decided that I will watch all the episodes through to David Tennant with the original effects on and not use the CGI updates. Part of this comes from my distaste of having to watch the original Star Wars trilogy on DVD with extra scenes with obviously fake CGI (the new speeder scenes at Mos Eisley, Ghost ending with Hayden etc.)

Overall, the best story so far.



From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 23 2009 @ 12:26 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

The Keys of Marinus Parts One and Two: SPOILERS
Wanted to see the new DVD version of this but I felt that waiting a few months would break the rhythm.
Part One: Has been the episode that has engaged me least so far. I'm not sure why. Maybe it was the special effects which pulled me out of the moment. This is an episode which could really benefit from some CGI effects. Having said that, I felt that the pyramid was realised excellently.
Also enjoy the fact that Ian is now permanently out of his cardy and still dressed in clothes from the thirteenth century. In fact, it was refreshing to see the two teachers finally accepting their time-space travelling lifestyle. Not wondering if they’d landed on earth but embracing the adventure of being in a new place.
Part Two: I loved. Loved the fact that Barbara is not under-used. I liked the short standalone nature of the story and loved the psychic slugs! Barbara saves the day. Hooray!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 23 2009 @ 12:30 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Doctor Whoovie] I decide to watch the episodes this time with the original SFX (since it is a watch from the beginning) but have watched it previously with the new effects.

I have decided that I will watch all the episodes through to David Tennant with the original effects on and not use the CGI updates. Part of this comes from my distaste of having to watch the original Star Wars trilogy on DVD with extra scenes with obviously fake CGI (the new speeder scenes at Mos Eisley, Ghost ending with Hayden etc.)
[/QUOTE]
Interesting choice and I know that really I should do the same for authenticity's sake but personally, I love the new CGI effects. See my above posting about the Keys of Marinus, I felt that here the limited nature of the effects really jarred and took me out of the story. I'm looking forward to seeing if they've done anything new for the DVD.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 23 2009 @ 01:31 PM
By: Chase

Content:

Dalek Invasion of Earth: less boring than I once thought and really quite well done and techincally not bad with some really ropey effects at times but the locales help and the actors are quite believable against silly looking squid like monsters which...to me are quite horrible thanks to the acting. The Doctor is suitably in over his head most of the time, Ian is on his own a great deal and Susan...well that ending is marvelous. Yet Susan and David's ordeal with the Robomen and the alligators reminds me of the old Flash Gordon serials...and I don' t mean that negatively...I like those but they are a bit creaky as is a great deal of this. Yet it is not dull and it is a step up for DW. Pity to lose Susan SO soon but truthfuly I never believed her as a little girl anyway and she's not...what the show needed was a younger child...but it never really got it...not until maybe Adric and Nyssa, maybe. This story is a lot of fun and goes by quickly.

KEYS OF MARINUS: funny, the first ep is the one that hooked me but most of the first episodes do. I find the thrill is having the travelers step into a new world and situation always fantastic and fun, no matter how the story turns out (mind you, during Colin's TRIAL I...oh not now...). I like this story despite itself. For some reason I like the travelogue feel it has and the threats seem real and even if they are contrived, different to what has gone before. Some of it also reminds me of FLASH GORDON, the old 30s serials, with revolving doors and cult like statues and brains in jars. And stock footage snow storms and wolves. Yet even the snowy landscape episodes work for me. There's something about this story that just lingers, being adrift in a strange world, alone or with a partner on another planet with disks that might not work...and for once, the planet seems to not be just "A jungle planet or an ice planet or a snow planet or a whatever" but a fully fledged planet like Earth that has deserts, snow, trials (the weakest part but also the part that stretches the format and shows how flexible it all is), acid seas. The monsters of course aren't really. They are men in wet suits and the most underdevelped DW monsters of all, not a race one really gets to know but that reason alone makes them...rather creepy. Not as bad as everyone seems to think it is.

PLANET OF GIANTS: I used to hate this story. It was slow moving, dull, and inconsequential. At least then. NOW, it seems to me to be...something of a lost gem. Barbara thinks she's dying but doesn't tell anyone. Ian remains positive. And yes, the travelers don't have to be in the story but they do nothing but fight to survive and THAT'S A GOOD THING, RTD are you listening? Sometimes a small (pun?) story like this is a good thing. The effects if they can be called that are pretty awful although I must admit the sink thing is rather well done. Of course LAND OF THE GIANTS did it MUCH better but that was in 1966 (production started in 66) to 1970. Of course INCREDIBLE SHRINKING MAN did it better than DOCTOR WHO in the 1950s but whatever. Not one I want to watch over and over but not as bad as I once thought either. IMO of course. The music's terrible though.

Another thing about this time in the show, the TARDIS interior changes almost constantly: if you look at something like THE WEB PLANET, the door to the outside is on the wrong side of the room while the interior door is on the side the door to outside should be one! the console in THE WEB PLANET spins and also in the same, the Doctor has some kind of a mini lab alcove from the console room. Things appear very strangely in the console room during this era, there are huge tubes, with giant circular lights over them, a huge diagonal light lamp over the console, files cabinets, etc etc.

Oh and I HATE the time wasted on CGI new effects. If effects are all people want to watch, go watch the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and whatever. I hate that the crews have to work on new CGI effects. Give it to me the way it was and start workig on new dvds to release. That's just how I feel but I know others enjoy the new effects mode. To me they just jar with the rest of the production and wreck the "art" that was first created.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 27 2009 @ 04:35 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

The Keys of Marinus: Episode Three - SPOILERS!
I struggled with this one, I have to say. Maybe it's the fact that it tries to fit an entire story within an episode (each episode in effect relating one stage of the search for the keys).Whereas episode two worked for me, here there never really seemed to be an explanation for why the growth accelerator had been devloped. I found the episode to be virtually plotless; the story missed the Doctor badly; Susan's role was to scream once or twice and then to disappear pointlessly; Ian manages to patronise his way through the twenty-five minutes, Barbrara is patronised and the supporting character (can't remember his name) suddenly decides to drop down dead for no apparent reason. Then off Ian and Barabara pop leaving the moving jungle to invade(and presumably in time to take over the whole of Marinus!).
Still I did love the name of the part four: The Snows of Terror (Da da daaaaaaaa!).


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 27 2009 @ 04:44 PM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Chase] Oh and I HATE the time wasted on CGI new effects. If effects are all people want to watch, go watch the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and whatever. [/QUOTE]
I love the CGI. I love the fact that the restoration team feel they want to leave their mark on the show. I love the fact that the option to watch them (and remember Chase, it is an option) means that some of the more poorly realised special effects do not pull me out of the moment.
I felt that the effects, especially in Dalek Invasion, were beautifully and sympathetically realised. To say that it should be watched as it was originally made or else one is not being faithful to the show is an argument that presumes that the director wouldn't have leapt at the chance of using modern effects if they had been available.
Oh and I love Battlestar Galactica as well.
Oh and I dislike sweeping statements about what should or should not be acceptable when watching Doctor Who. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but opinions are more convincing when their intention is to discuss and inform rather than to patronise.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 27 2009 @ 07:37 PM
By: Chase

Content:

Sweeping statements? Whatever I said or wrote is only meant from my point of view. The only thing not acceptable on DW for me is bad stories. Almost none of the DW in the early years are terribly bad and for one, I find the bad effects don't pull me out of the moment, for me DW is the moment where it all is just there: bad effects and all. For me, new CGI does pull me out of the DW experience, it just doesn't fit in these old stories for ME. I don't mean to patronize anyone so I'm not sure what you mean.

OH and more importantly: What character just dropped down dead for no reason? I've not seen that or recalled that. Not that it didn't happen but who was that? What was his name? Maybe you're watching an edited version?

Could it be the unnamed old man who has a choker vine attack him earlier in the episode and who lies dying for some time before expiring?


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 28 2009 @ 03:32 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Chase] Sweeping statements? [/QUOTE]
Suggesting that anybody who likes these types of effects should go watch another programme instead. This is a sweeping statement. the clue is in the word the 'any' part of 'anybody'.

[QUOTE BY= Chase]Could it be the unnamed old man who has a choker vine attack him earlier in the episode and who lies dying for some time before expiring?[/QUOTE] No, I meant the old man who stood for about ten seconds with a very loose vine wrapped unconvincingly around his neck and then manages to speak normally with scarce a croak about the whispering coming.
And, if you are not sure what patronising means maybe you should look it up in a dictionary. Your postings increasingly take the form of being either patronising or just invective!
Like, I said. there are ways of giving one's opinion in a measured respectful manner and there is another way which seems to consist of point scoring and blanket statementss which put up a wall to good-natured debate.
I really feel that you often make good points, Chase but you make them in such a way that most responses to your postings spend time discussing the way that you say things rather than what you say.
If you really want to understand another's viewpoint ask and discuss, don't cloud the issue with language designed to provoke.
Look at the difference:
"Personally, I don't like the colour blue as I find it cold and impersonal."
As opposed to:
"Anyone who likes the colour blue should go and live in a lunatic asylum cos they paint the inmate's cells that colour, don't they. Blue is a BIG FAT JOKE!"
You see the difference?


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 28 2009 @ 09:55 PM
By: Chase

Content:

Idiom, you're totally right. I reread a lot of what I wrote and this thread in particular and it's inflammatory. I didn't intend it to be that way but that's how it is. Of course I would defend anyone's or everyone's right to watch the CGI effects if they want to. I personally wouldn't want that as I like it the way it is/was and was made and I would not hold it against them if they felt differently but the postings I made/make, dn't come off that way but come off as insulting so Yeah, I see your points.


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 29 2009 @ 09:41 AM
By: Idiom

Content:

[QUOTE BY= Chase] the postings I made/make, dn't come off that way [/QUOTE]
No worries. We are all have that tendancy about the things we love and everybody needs a passion!


From Beginning to End: The First Doctor

Posted on: May 29 2009 @ 10:45 PM
By: Chase

Content:

The thing is: I don't seem to be able to change the way I write those types of replies or reviews even as I realize this!!


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