Stories about Matt Smith's first stories in "Doctor Who" are already starting to show up on the tabliods (The Sun).
Here is a link to the sun's story about the 1st two stories, but bear in mind that the Sun is not know for being a reliable source:
We have ways of making Who talk
PS: I hope the second story idea is true.
There was a script written by Mark Gatiss for series 4 that may be close enough to this to make it (Sun article) reasonably accurate, if that script was held over for the upcoming series...
Wonder if those idiots who 'boycotted' Human Nature will do the same with Nightshade, if the Sun is correct?
OH DEAR GOD! I hope that's not true. I love Matt Smith and as the Doctor I think he's going to be brilliant and I sort of trust the writer but I forgot his name to be honest. And what's RTD to do with this? I thought he was DONE. Or are they talking about the finale with David Tennant?
Anyway when a show has Nazis used like this, it's on its last legs. Mix in rampaging monsters, a museum, Indiana Jones like rip offs, and what else? Oh yeah, a super hero or detective called NIGHTSHADE? What you got? A big fat bore piece of junk. Please don't let this be true. Oh and that DW novel was junky too, nothing like the great Human Nature was. I'm hiding under the sofa if DW gets as bad as this report seems to suggest, no, SCREAM OUT AT ME.
[QUOTE BY= Chase] Anyway when a show has Nazis used like this, it's on its last legs. Mix in rampaging monsters, a museum, Indiana Jones like rip offs, and what else? Oh yeah, a super hero or detective called NIGHTSHADE? What you got? A big fat bore piece of junk. Please don't let this be true. Oh and that DW novel was junky too, nothing like the great Human Nature was. I'm hiding under the sofa if DW gets as bad as this report seems to suggest, no, SCREAM OUT AT ME. [/QUOTE]
Doh! And there was me thinking that the ideas sounded quite interesting if done well.
[QUOTE BY= Idiom] [QUOTE BY= Chase] Anyway when a show has Nazis used like this, it's on its last legs. Mix in rampaging monsters, a museum, Indiana Jones like rip offs, and what else? Oh yeah, a super hero or detective called NIGHTSHADE? What you got? A big fat bore piece of junk. Please don't let this be true. Oh and that DW novel was junky too, nothing like the great Human Nature was. I'm hiding under the sofa if DW gets as bad as this report seems to suggest, no, SCREAM OUT AT ME. [/QUOTE]
Doh! And there was me thinking that the ideas sounded quite interesting if done well. [/QUOTE]
Hear hear. Loved the Nightshade book. They can't all be Human Nature. Love the positivity. Really looking forward to these. Clearly I'm shallow and love series that are on their last legs.
If anybody is intrested in the book, the BBC "Doctor Who" website has an e-book version available.
You can read online or download a PDF version and read at your leisure. You can also download a PDA version. Here's the link:
Hope you enjoy it!
NOTE: The book version is centered around the 7th Doctor and Ace so obviously several changes will have to be made to fit Matt Smith's Doctor.
There's not an original thought in any of the purposed "stories" and I use the term loosely that the article purports to be happening. And why is RTD mentioned? Is he still with the show during the 11th Doctor's reign? I thought he was moving on? That might explain one or two things: that he's still ruining the show OR that the SUN has no idea what is really going on. Or maybe we've reached the TRIAL OF A TIME LORD/TIME AND THE RANI equivalent in the New Show to the Old Show. Sigh. Nazis, museaums, superheros, an idea from a 15 year old (?) novel, Indiana Jones...what next? Can't they think of anything new now?
[QUOTE BY= Chase] There's not an original thought in any of the purposed "stories" and I use the term loosely that the article purports to be happening. And why is RTD mentioned? Is he still with the show during the 11th Doctor's reign? I thought he was moving on? That might explain one or two things: that he's still ruining the show OR that the SUN has no idea what is really going on. Or maybe we've reached the TRIAL OF A TIME LORD/TIME AND THE RANI equivalent in the New Show to the Old Show. Sigh. Nazis, museaums, superheros, an idea from a 15 year old (?) novel, Indiana Jones...what next? Can't they think of anything new now? [/QUOTE]
Surely it's not what they do but how they do it? I recently read your very review of the Android of Tara which is one of the most derivative stories that we have, being an almost direct copy of the Prisonner of Zenda. Your had an extremely positive take on this episode, however. Try to be a little open-mided, Chase. We have absolutely no idea what direction the new production team will take the show in and if any of Moffat's previous efforts are anything to go by, I'm sure that there will be plenty to enjoy.
Not to sound like an un-educated nincompoop, but I haven't read any of the books. So if they were going to do another adaption, it would be fresh to me and my kind. That said, they have played that card already, but I could see them doing an offshoot somehow. And just because RTD isn't running the show doesn't mean he can't write a script. I don't know what the history of that kind of thing is though. New doctor, new producer, new can of worms or whatever they eat on Gallifrey.
I...I ...aye. The new show doesn't seem overly derivative but when it does, it's usually okay; what's worrisome is the overly bad stories and bad gimmicks it uses: the Doctor's Daughter is the case in point. Ohhawa, let's call it the Doctor's Daughter and make everyone think she's his daughter! Then they go and show us in the first few minutes that, uhm, she's really NOT. Then what follows is a highly routine adventure that has Martha get an alien killed just so she can rejoin her friends. And the daughter: little more than a Xena/Buffy hybrid. Really mediocre.
One tends to forget how good the first 2005 season was, even when it was somewhat suspect (ALIENS IN THE FAMILY, ALIENS OF LONDON orwhat3ever that two parter was called, the titles just are not memorable) but anyway...it gave us some really good character interplay. How GREAT was all the dialog in THE EMPTY CHILD two parter? VERY.
By season four, I could tell the really bad ones and good ones just by the two line synopsis we got: Doctor and Donna meet Agatha Christie in the past, a giant bee, and a murder (good)...the Earth is moved by the Daleks who want to experiment on humans so the can destroy them all (bad, unbelievbably bad)...Donna goes through an alternate life and meets Rose (so so and with no Doctor and tending to be rather downbeat). The Master has conquered the world, taken over that ship in the sky, and holds Capt Jack and Martha's family hostage while Martha tores the world hoping to find others who will evoke the good name of the Doctor who now looks like a wizened old Yoda---Gag me!
So when you say rampaging monster (seen it), Nazis (Yawn!), and Indiana Jones (had its hey day already), as well as what else was it you said or reported? Oh yeah, Nightshade...THIS EARLY in the 11th Doctor's era, I DO WORRY! It's too early to have such rip off ideas and with such bad stories that came before this report (the JOURNEY'S END two parter crapola, THE NEXT DOCTOR gimmicky waste of time, the inconsequential PLANET OF THE not so DEAD, and hey why not throw in the redo of an annual story not yet seen WATERS OF SOMETHING OR OTHER) yeah, I worry. PLANET OF THE not so DEAD was highly deviriative and really poor. If the new Doctor has dead pan scripts like that one, the show is, at least quality wise doomed.
Add to that people who go on about how they miss David and hate the new guy (ME? I already like HIM but I question the scripts and ideas and themes if that report is true), the show might just be doomed quiality wise AND ratings wise, with no fault due to Matt Smith. Matt's going to be great (NO ONe can be as bad as McCoy was in TIME AND THE RANI and some of PARADISE TOWERS and survive being a Doctor and Matt won't be that bad) but the scripts, dialog and theme of the show...
In season one, we had Rose and her whole perspective...her whole outlook on things and the damaged Doctor and all that. It was just...GREAT! It was a new slant for Doctor Who and an emotional core that made DW great, and by a retroactive continuinty or discontinuity, the old show just as great. Since the old show couldn't find its emotional center to save its own life and througout it own slow prolonged death (coming from the point of Adric's death I'd say or just after that with really bad, undramatic direction and poor stories), this new show COULD.
Rose cared, Rose's mum cared, Mickey dared and cared, and saved the Earth. Rose's dad sacrificed himself; the Doctor DIED! The only stiff story wsa the one where Adam was kicked off the TARDIS and even that had an emotional core as Adam in the original did what he did to save his father from a disease. Yeah there were faults but I was willig to overlook those. Then the Dalek was brought back and then 1000s of them and the Emperor and it was all so grand, so tense, so amazing...and the Doctor kissed Rose and regenerated to save her! What a great GREAT season!
Then we got a couple of stiffies, one really bad TIME AND THE RANI for the new show, NEW EARTH. I thought, "What were they thinking?" NEW EARTH truly sucks. The werewolf one was okay. but back on track with the Madam Depompadour stuff (although seeing her as a heroine/victim is a bit much, she did leave her family to go cheat on her husband and abandon a sick daughter but they don't show any of that, perhaps history is not sure about her motives and we're not to judge but anyway a good story with a good twist ending and for God's sakes, a proper threesome TARDIS crew)...the second season theme of Rose/Doctor continued with great stuff: despite what others say, I loved the two part CYBERMEN story, thrilling, glad to see Mickey as a full fledged hero! The CM was scary just as the Dalek was in the past. The theme of Rose/Doctor went on and the two parter of them in a black hole sucked asteroid with the devil below...amazing. Original stuff for this show and even if it wasn't overall, it was done well so I see your point. None of this bored me at all. I even loved FEAR HER, which I thought was great bar the Olympic stuff. Why did that have to happen? RTD can't seem to keep things small and cozy and TWILIGHT ZONE like in that season and others. And yet...DOOMSDAY has to be, for me, the greatest DW story ever told. The Daleks? Scary and powerful, dangerous killers! The Cybermen: cold, calculating, cutters of flesh! Meeting among the main stars and guest stars captured on both sides. It just could not get any better than that. In fact, what else was going on around the two battling alien races: Rose and the Doctor separated, Micky causing the Dalek time machine device to open, the Genesis Ark, the two universes, Rose's dad returning and meeting Jackie, Jackie getting in the TaRDIS, tORCHWOOD! It was all just so coming together. Then the greatest emotional scene in DW ever: Rose and the Doctor saying goodbye forever, finale! WOW!
Then the first hint the specials were all going to be shit from now on--RUNAWAY BRIDE. With only two good scenes (The Tardis on the highway, Donna's goodbye). The theme tended to be awash in Doctor sadness and this never went away from the show and tended to really make me want to vomit. Martha's first story was just okay and seemed a bit OUTER LIMITS to me and the Doctor seemed like he was acting like a jerk to anyone except Martha. SHAKESPEARE CODE was better. I tend to think that LAZURUS thing was okay but really it is really just a rejected UNIT story with just a mad doctor and a big ugly THING-like monster with a really poor performance from the mad doctor Mark Gatiss. Really poor. The climax in the church bell tower was exciting though. The Martha's mother thing bombed. It just didn't have the same ring of truth and caring and interest that the Jackie/Rose/Mickey, Doctor dynamic did. Ditto the whole Master build up: Pretty poor if not obvious. Saxon indeed.
The less I say about how bad the Dalek two parter the better. It's another gimmick show. It could have been so well done. The Empire State Building. A human Dalek, perhaps it should have started with that thing around rather than the Pig man (what an embarassing plot line!) and perhaps a monster terrorzing humans could have been revealed as a human Dalek struggling with its nature or maybe it could have been revealed that a project trying to put people to work is really run by Daleks...but all the back and forth scenes of guns pointing at each other and then back again was just like a comical scene in the old GET SMART series...and not funny in DW. Add to that a Doctor who seems suicidal (Oawww, we can explain it as him missing Rose) and you get a really poor two parter. This plus JOURNEY'S END robbed the Daleks of their powerful stature that DALEK and DOOMSDAY gave them. WTF Why?
The show lost its way here. There were some great episodes including HUMAN NATURE's two parter and almost all the others leading to the three part finale. The Derek Jacobi Master thing was not too bad but that two parter in the end was just awful. Awful. Then there's the casting: the guy playing the new Master after Jacobi is just miscast and so over the top and awful it reminded me of the TRIAL OF A TIME LORD which was over the top and miscast (esp the tribe woman in MYSTERIOUS PLANET)and changed nothing for the show (you might think a Gallifrey rebellion might change something but in the climax, we find out little and in the next season they avoided Gallifrey altogether..and don't give me that it wanted to focus on better things for THAT season gave us TIME AND THE RANI, the WORST classic series story ever). No focus, a reset button, terrible casting, companions that are superflous (Jack is captured throughout and does little, Martha, while touring the world MUST get the world to evoke the Doctor's name)...all add to up to real crap. A real lost show.
I guess wthout going on and on about how bad season four's opening story was and how good it all was until the last two (Gosh darn awful in every line of dialog, every scene), the point I"m trying to make, longwindedly, is that...DW has no point any longer. It had a point in seasons one, two, three, and maybe even four but the points are slowly being diluted, lost, and even vanishing. What was the point to NEXT DOCTOR and PLANET OF THE DEAD? IF the new show IS to survive, it needs (and I mean survive in quality because nowadays it seems people will watch anything crappy and things that are not crappy that have value seem to go off the air and again this is all IMO so I can be a minority in my tastes) to have a point again.
Seasone four started off terribly but it did find its way again, traditionally. And as much as I liked most of season four, it was really filled with traditional DW WITHOUT the stuff that made the 2005 series so watchable, innovative and new for DW. I mean I can take Sarah Jane and the Fourth Doctor and put them in almost any season four story and have the same thing work just as well. I can't plop them into ANY season one episode and have that work or even any season two ep. Maybe. Thing is it is DW by the numbers now right or wrong, bad or good. I can also take The Third Doctor and Liz and put them into the SONTARAN STRATEGEM, which I also loved. Tegan and the Fifth Doc and easily fit into FIRES OF POMPEII. I can't see any Doctor or companion fitting into ROSE and as strange and as farty as some of ALIEN OF LONDON is...no other DW story has a companion's mother calling the Doctor out about taking her or his daughter off the face of the Earth,having creatures from the pits of hell in their own living room and being attacked on the streets; having the mother showing the daughter the repurcussions of them having just left with the Doctor; etc. And NO other regeneration story has the repurcussions of the Doctor changing and the effect on the companions as the GREATEST Xmas story, THE CHRISTMAS INVASION. NO other comp and Doctor could be placed within that story either.
Traditional is not wrong and it doesn't make the show good or bad, the individual scripts and dialog make or break each ep but for me 2005 had all that and more. It had that something that made it FASCINATING to watch DW, even more than the original show. In fact, it bettered the original show. That is not being lived up to now. Now the specials are so far worse than most of the original show, they make little to no sense, do things for sensationalism, gimmick us to death and tease us to death without delivering the goods, steal from better sources without a purpose, make the Doctor a self centered bigot (yes, bigot, he thinks he's better than any human), and make the Doctor a flirty dullard, etc etc etc.
I really want to read that last post, but I'm sorry, it's just way too long...or maybe I'm just too lazy...or maybe a combination of both.
"Shh, shhh, shh, don't listen to me, I never do."
The Doctor, Keeper of Traken
"Was that bang short enough for you, Brigidier?"
Short enough for you?
In short, I"m worried about the next season's stories looking at how GREAT 2005 was, how AWESOME most of 2006 was, how fantastic 2007 was but how HORRIBLE in the end of 2007, and how TERRIBLE Voyage and Runaway were, how TRADITIONAL and like the OLD series 2008 was and DISGUSTINGLY BAD the last two eps of 2008 were and how POINTLESS ALL the specials so far (3) are and how stupid and annual storyized the next special looks and how the report for Matt's stories are, like him, hate the report of the storise that are to come.
[QUOTE BY= Chase]
how AWESOME most of 2006 was[/QUOTE]
Phew, I'm afraid I don't agree with you there. Having been a fan since I was 8 years old (from the tail-end of Tom Baker) I have to say that Season 2 was one of the worst. Apart from The Girl In The Fireplace and Doomsday that season really stunk.
And I happen to think that Season 4 was the best since the show returned. The only poor episodes for me seem to be the ones you like Chase, the Agatha Christie story was just really run-of-the-mill.
I do however, agree that the specials have been pretty rubbish. I did enjoy Planet Of The Dead but have yet to rewatch it and see if it holds up to repeated viewings.
I very rarely agree with you Chase, and your negativity often grates but you do keep the forums buzzing and I'm always interested to read your opinions.
Uh, thanks, I think President Nice (nice?). Season Two had Doomsday and Girl in the Fireplace and I really liked most of the others including the werewolf story. The Sarah Jane story was okay but when you dig deeper into it, it makes things...pretty bad...for Sarah and makes her such a loser but more on that elsewhere. It also makes Rose look kinda stupid more than once. I liked the experimental ones and I think that you must be a more traditional old series type of person since those are what comprise most of season four's early seasons. I like the old DW I really do and most of it is very very good but it lacks the real charactization to be GREAT like 2005-2006-2007-and even 2008's series. BOTH shows or rather the one show they both are have their great successess and their low down points of suck nesses if you know what I mean. 2 was still fresh and the Rose/Doctor thing still making me wonder how it would all end and it ended greatly with DD HOWEVER season four had to ruin all that and bring her back, BADLY.
Anyway, if by negative you mean you don't want me pointing out any flaws and just saying I liked everything, I can't do that. If by positive you mean I like everything and every piece of garbage the movies and TV throw at me, I can't do that either. Sorry the negative grates but it's the truth from my POV.
here's a try at being positive and take this light heartedly:
Did you see that TRIAL OF A TIME LORD? My goodness the TWO old theme songs were just so annoying and dull after so long a time of being successful and evoking a trip through time and space so they have new great tinkly sound to the theme song and that opening with the Colin face looming at us from those purple things, it's all so, so, so happy and gay! I love it! And boy did they spice up things by putting Peri in that yellow blazer and making her want to stay behind and not go exploring with the Doctor. She's just a great curious character who wants to find out everything she can about their travels together. Does she even want to be there? I mean would you? And those trial scenes, they just add to the suspense and keep things moving along at a really fast pace and the cliffhangers, all so different from one another, I mean sometimes it's a close up on the Doctor's face from the front and sometimes it's from the profile or the side. And Colin's acting was just so realistic. He really seems to believe he is the Doctor, just like Tom did. Not one actor was allowed by anyone to go over the top.
And the new Companion, Mel. Now she wants to be there. She's really furthered women's lib by being skinny and screaming louder than the past companions. She also gets the Doctor to do things that he would never do before even if a companion asked him to. She's so much like Rose in that respect. She gets the Doctor to change...and ride a bike to lose weight. Great plot that. I love how all the loose plot ends in all the parts of this long story...isn't it great to have one giant story just like DALEK MASTERPLAN, only it's not like DALEK MASTER PLAN, it's different. Things are not resolved until...but never mind. The Doc kills the Vervoids, seems happy that the Time Lords allow that big jackass to kill Peri and the Sil creatures. Isn't it so cool to have such a successful alien like Sil back? I mean my friends and family who never watched DW before and always heard me discuss it during Pertwee, Baker the first and Davison's time always wondered if it were any good and now they have tuned into this and seen Sil and a half naked old man acting like a werewolf and Peri fall in love with Maya's father from SPACE: 1999. Mind you there's also a black actress from SPACE: 1999 and mind transplants like in the SPACE: 1999 episodes Brian Blessed appeared in...both of them and both of those have very postiive endings and end well pretty much. Oh and Peri had such a great way to end, stunning, bald and all. No way she can come back but we feel so bad for her so it's really good that most of what we watched was just doctored by the Valeyard and never happened. A bit like the last part of the 2007 's last two eps. Good.
The Valeyard. WOW! He was the Doctor all the time! It really made sense and logically that he would want to kill the Doctor. His every motive is explained away. And glad to see they resolved the Gallifrey rebellion for us, maybe next season will continue that great stuff. And the Keeper of the Matrix being the Valeyard all the time or vica versa. I think it was so cool when it ended. Oh and the Matrix. I'm so glad they kept it just like it used to be and entering it was so diffcult. Mel had a real hard time opening that door.
Colin's hair looks really good in this.
The Master didn't just phone in his part. He put it on a video screen. Very progressive for a sci fi 80s show...and glad he seems to have brought Mel here, nothing at all like the time he used Adric. Oh yeah and to backtrack a bit...
Colin's acting was great again in the first story. I mean he made using an umbrella to fend off a rock attack look really cool. His quips fit right in with the danger and the cool music. The guest stars were all so on target as if they knew what the script was going for and the direction for this story and the next made things so tense, I could hardly stand to watch!
After being off the air for a year, they will really wow audiences with this. NO one will dare make spoofs of the Doctor and some female running up and down corridors with a Cyberman wearing a Margaret Thatcher wig or a fat Cyberleader (no, wait, that was ATTACK OF THE CYBERMEN)or dancing around in the console room. DW will be cool again...thanks to the trial and the break. A year off and maybe we will get a few specials like SLIPBACK, which might also have a cool ending to top off a story that wasn't ripped out of HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY or TREMORS or anytying.
Of course, everything I just wrote above concerning the TRIAL was bullshit.
Just teasing. No, really. I am. Was that the kind of positive you like?
I'll admit, the notion of doing a Nazi story makes me cringe a bit, especially after the last year or two of "homages" in Who: it's not that I dislike homages, but I feel that many of the ones we've had are making no attempt at being subtle or going so far as to beat us over the smegging head to make sure we know. Ie, it feels like lazy scriptwriting instead of something worthwhile.
But, Moffat will be the man in charge, so I say let's see how it goes for a year or two before we start screaming bloody murder.
The Gallifreyan Embassy - Forum