Okay tonight is the night. The night I realized DOCTOR WHO is officially thought of as a BIG GIANT FAT JOKE!
Okay in the middle of my rant for those who don't know I'll tell you what TONIGHT THE NIGHT is from what I could gather: John Barrowman gives people a chance to act or something or other and one viewer got a chance to do a Tardis scene with John as Capt Jack as John and David not as the Doctor but as David. The alien is poor, the dialog crap, and the story is by RTD (but the new unimproved RTD who can't write any longer). There really is no story as the whole thing is a fake as it is really David, John, and a guy named Tim. How awful.
RTD is not even trying any longer to take DW seriously. I mean have you seen this scene? Even as a joke it's not funny. RTD and David, neither of you are Tom Baker or Douglas Adams so stop trying to be funny. Back in the 1980s DW was thought to be a big joke and all types of parodies and "make fun of"s were heaped upon it...and to be honest, the show at that time deserved it. It stunk. Peri and the Sixth Doctor, indeed. Fat Cybermen, Sil, the Trial season, TIME AND THE RANI. The show as a hollow empty mess with no real logic or plot to it and panto overacting. Well, see where this is going?
First we get TIME CRASH, then the silly Sarah Jane comic relief crap, oh, le'ts not forget the EXTRAS scene (which is played for laughs, is not funny, has a cheesy hole-in-the-face monster played by Ricky Gervais or however you spell his name and a crap companion and a crap Doctor--yea, the 10th acting like he can't) which actually looks like it could have gotten pulled from a TRIAL like story right out of DW and now this, not to mention very hokey, cheesy SPECIALS (NEXT DOC, PLANET OF THE DREAD)...is RTD purposely trying to make it difficult for the next team and the next Doctor (the next real Doctor, the 11th?). WTF?
What ever happened to protecting the integrity of the show? Would they have allowed this kind of crap to go out/on in the 2005 or 2006 seasons?
I'll repost some of what I wrote in the Star Trek post because it's relevant to this :
... it WAS (in 2005 the show was brought back correctly). Key word is WAS. Somehow PRSENTLY, RTD thinks he can pass of any old junk on us and get away with it..wait, he is. It seems people will watch any old junk just because of its past and past history (by this I mean a great first season and three fairly good seasons that followed with diminishing returns on all RTD's scripts post Doomsday, although by that I mean quality as ratings seemED to just go up with any old junk like the Master triliogy and the Journey's End bs).
So was it a good thing to have it back? Yeah, I'd say so but that more or less depends on where it will end up. Hopefully RTD will be out of DW forever once he leaves and hopefully the damage he is inflicting won't leave the new crew with a hopelss situation of getting back quality and emotion.
...when Tom Baker left, so did a great deal of the restraints on script editors and producers and writers. Everyone complains that Tom Baker wasn't restrained by anyone enough..but if you look at the facts and think about it, once he left, the script quality got worse, the companion quality got worse, and although Davison's era survived JNT, Eric Saward and Pip and Jan as well as others, and two or three weaker than Tom Baker actors who didn't rail against scripts and silly boring dull plots...all did their damage to the show so that we got after Davison left was a producer who didn't care to be there, fired good writers and promoted the show more than worked on it and when he did, he wasn't curtailed by those with better taste such as Chris Bidmead.
In addition, someone like Barbara Clegg who wrote a good story was used only once. Then we had a situation where in TRIAL, when Colin asked what or where his Doctor is supposed to be coming from and how he should play a scene, Eric, the script editor told him to ask the writer or the director, and they in turn told him to ask Eric! WTF? That would never have happened in Tom Baker's time. Forwhatever reason they didn't really want to fire Tom or couldn't for whatever reason and that made DW better. Once he was gone, the took a slow but steady downfall in to crap time. Look at TRIAL, not one of the endings of each part is fully resolved satisfactorily...say what you want about Tom's stories, they all were entertaining and iwth the exceoption of INVISIBLE ENEMY and ANDroid INVASION, all of them had a logical internal consistency that made them make sense. TRIAL and TIME AND THE RANI and PARADISE TOWERS are just the start of major embarassments for the DW show and largely unwatchable to be honest.
Tonight was the night for me that DW is officially thought of a joke, a ragged children's show, a fluke of a sci fi over the top cheesy show that somehow managed to stay on the air by attracting a non-demanding audience and very small children and girls who like Tennant's body. DW is officially for me on th downward slide toward cancellation. It may not happen if the new team is strong but all it needs to happen is the audience check out and I believe if the "jokes", the crap stolen plots, and the girlie approach to DW continues in the current vain, it will be cancelled surely as it was the first two times. I really like their choice for Doctor and maybe script editor but they both have their work cut out for them in the wake of such poor RTD crap leftovers. God only knows what the last two 10th Doctor stories will be like or what it will do to the series. If I know RTD he's going to leave them in a terrible lurch and smile saying, "Now get the show out of that one!"
Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. RTD should be ashamed and DW is now a terrible, unfunny joke, never to be thought of serious again. No wonder David wants to leave and I'm suprised he did that scene. How utterly boring, tedious, and dull and I"m not talking about the planet Callufrax, gang!
I'm sorry Chase but why have you posted so much negativity about a scene that was supposed to be a joke?
The point of Tonight's The Night is to give people the chance to do something they've always wanted to do for a night. The bloke (Tim) always wanted to be in Doctor Who, so he got to do a scene. I don't see any problem with that. He won a competition to do this and as well as acknowledging the fans, it also promotes the show to people who hardly watch it.
Things like this and the charity episodes are made for light entertainment. They're not part of the series, they're not even designed for Doctor Who fans.
It also seems you just need a little spark to go ranting about RTD. And considering this scene is just a bit of fun, made to entertain non-Doctor Who viewers - I find you taking it seriously, quite laughable.
If you dislike the new show so much, then why watch it? I don't particularly like Star Trek but how can I call something crap that millions of people love? They must be doing something right and the new series of Doctor Who is the same.
and I don't know why you take my ranting against that scence and the recent "SPECIALS" as me not liking the whole of the new series. I do like it which is why I feel the integrity of it should be maintained and isn't. If you were aroundin the 80s "light" entertainment" such as Tonights the Night abounded and added to the DW is a joke sydrome not to mention really bad scripts and if you look I'm ranting against THAT (really bad scripts and lack of integrity for the show) more than RTD however RTD seems to be in total control here. Just because Laverne and Shirley was a ratings smash, didn't mean the makers of that show were doing something right or that it had quality. These days people seem to like anything, especially f that anything is traveling on past triumphs and let's face it, RTD had past triumphs and still has them with the ratings. It is just that ratings do not equal quality and the Light STuff such as this is no diferent than the Specials themselves in many ways, goofy, syrupy degenerate soap stuff that no one can really say is fnny, or intelligent or interesting in any way or adds to DW in any way whatsoever, so yeah, "m protectve of DW more now than ever and I love itso much to see it get so BAD and so POOR in the show and in stuff like this. I also gues I feel cheated when I read that on the DW site, there is tobe a special DW scene witten by RTD and with Capt Jack in the TArdis, i was expecting something passably good or something that resembled a story. Not that junk
I also have several other reasons to be againstg RTD of late: THE NEXT DOCTOR, PLANET OF THE DEAD, VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED, the Sarah Jane special, TIMECRASH, JOURNEY'S END and its' first part, the Master trilogy, RUNAWAY BRIDE,and PARTNERS IN CRIME. Other than that things are fine.
[QUOTE BY= Chase] I also have several other reasons to be againstg RTD of late: THE NEXT DOCTOR, PLANET OF THE DEAD, VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED, the Sarah Jane special, TIMECRASH, JOURNEY'S END and its' first part, the Master trilogy, RUNAWAY BRIDE,and PARTNERS IN CRIME. Other than that things are fine.[/QUOTE]
I have seen you rant against "Time Crash" before and let it slide, but here you relate it directly to RTD and it just is not so. You are the first person PERIOD that I have seen have negativity twards Time Crash. IMO (and I add many others) it is an 8 min. work of art, written by Steven Moffat directed by Graeme Harper and if he is to be believed RTD sat on the sidelens during that and "Played Fanboy" for the day. I am no great fan of RTD of late either but Time Crash is not his, nor is it naff. Lighten up, learn to use the edit key and realize that when you do posts on single episodes of a story that threads already exist for on this forum it is hard to take you seriously.
[QUOTE BY= Chase]
Somehow PRSENTLY, RTD thinks he can pass of any old junk on us and get away with it..wait, he is. It seems people will watch any old junk just because of its past and past history (by this I mean a great first season and three fairly good seasons that followed with diminishing returns on all RTD's scripts post Doomsday, although by that I mean quality as ratings seemED to just go up with any old junk like the Master triliogy and the Journey's End bs). [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE BY= Chase] Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. RTD should be ashamed and DW is now a terrible, unfunny joke, never to be thought of serious again. [/QUOTE]
Wow! That's not just criticism, that's pure hatred towards one person. See, I've never really understood that. You talk as if RTD has some evil master-like plot to undermine and destroy the show.
It's the same way that people talk about football managers over here. God. It's a job that I wouldn't want to do. To be faced with all of that hatred from people who are willing to jump on your every mistake. Even when your every mistake is still winning games.
Doctor Who continues to thrive, Chase. Not everybody sees it with your eyes.
I totally understand from your postings why you don't like the programme but to turn it into an attack on a single individual is not constructive criticism. It's a diatribe.
[QUOTE BY= Chase]
I also have several other reasons to be againstg RTD of late: THE NEXT DOCTOR, PLANET OF THE DEAD, VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED, the Sarah Jane special, TIMECRASH, JOURNEY'S END and its' first part, the Master trilogy, RUNAWAY BRIDE,and PARTNERS IN CRIME. Other than that things are fine.[/QUOTE]
Well I think I must jump in here.
I have been disappointed with a few of those RTD stories listed above - in particular VOTD - but having a critical view of a story is not the same as a rant - which I feel some of your post is sounding like.
Time Crash? By Steven Moffat. That was to me a really special little treat.
You also don't include stories like Midnight which was a RTD story and to me good Science Fiction.
I haven't watched Tonight's the Night - I have no idea what was shown - but THAT's not Dr Who.
As for RTD messing it up for those to follow? I don't see that at all. He seems to have cleared the way for the new team to take Dr Who in any direction they want.
So - I to sum up from me - some of RTDs stories have disappointed me and I'm not that keen of keep bringing back companions time and again.
But to say that it's all becoming a joke or that it's being sabotaged doesn't really hold water as an argument - unless that is what you are trying to do - ruffle a few feathers here in the forum?
I've not read the Time Crash rant - but I thought it was a truly wonderful scene. It was completely touching, and all for charity (and the phone-in donations increased significantly in the immediate period after that was broadcast).
I happened to catch the Tonights The Night thing - I wasnt watching it, I just noticed DT and JB in the Tardis set. I thought it was quite funny!!
The only part of CyberColin's post with which I'd disagree, I think such pieces are totally aimed at Doctor Who, as much as those people who have no interest in the show. Other than that I thought he was spot on.
I'm sorry Chase, but I think you've got it really wrong.
I didn't include MIDNIGHT because I thought it was really good but how long ago was that? And how many things have we had since then from the show or RTD that came even close to that.
Sorry, I stand on TIME CRASH (I wish I could literally) as a piece of garbage. I understand the need for cheapness for a charity show and a total TARDIS scene but it is just silly, self referntial in a bad way, and ...once again mocks gay guys as villains (the whole Master beard thing). David is exceptionally bad in this and Davison looks pathetic i that old outfit and he rants equally. As for the fan thing with the Linda group being mentioned...it's not funny and it doesn't fit in with the Doctor knowing who he himself is when he meets himself.
The whole thing is over the top. David's Doctor: he's once mentioned that Tom was his Doctor, now it's Peter and all of that dialog is decidedly poor "You were my Doctor" and on top of that sort of insulting to the Hartnell Doctor ("you know how it is when you're young and self important" or something like that).
Okay it's not as embarassing as the Tonight's the Night but it does come close. Yeah I am hard on RTD of late because to me, and I'm being too serious here, yes, to me he's really bringing the quality of the show down. The other thing is the year off thing; it's a bad move and a wrong move to take a year off. If he was that stressed and the crew was that needy to have to take a year off DW because creatively they were spent, then maybe RTD and most of that crew and RTD should have left and given the show over to someone else.
Then I've heard rumors the BBC wanted to cancel the show but allowed RTD to stay to keep it alive and going and to allow the new team time to figure out what they were doing. None of this rings true but if it does, it's worse than I thought. It all rings of the same and most awful time in DW's history: of the Colin Baker debacle, when they forced JNT to stay or else DW would have totally been totally cancelled (according to rumor) ; had to be give a year off (cancelled for a bit)to regroup (and when it came back it was back with the junk that was TRIAL); changed a Doctor forcibly; and had a producer who promoted the show but did little to improve script quality of the actual show. In addition we got junk like JIM'LL FIX IT which is almost totally like TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT and yet even that Colin-Tegan-Jim-Sontaran TARDIS thing was better than both TIME CRASH and TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT thing. To have such huge plot holes in a dull story like TRIAL rings of such huge plot holes in stuff like PLANET OF THE DEAD. And to have a writer, a script editor, and director who couldn't tell their lead actor what was supposed to be going on with the Doctor in TRIAL, is just poor. I see far too many parallels here with the current situation the series is in. And I might be mistaken but haven't the ratings for PLANET OF THE DEAD gone down from previous stories?
anyway, yeah I'm hard on RTD because I love DW and really loved the first season and many of the stories that followed but when it is bad, it's awfully bad and with little logic and little to recommend it. Think about this: if you wanted to make someone a DW fan or have them share in the great feeling you get when you watch something from DW that you love...what story would you pick? JOURNEY'S END? NEW EARTH? LAST OF THE TIME LORDS? TIME CRASH? TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT? SMITH AND JONES? RUNAWAY BRIDE? VOYAGE OF THE DAMNED? PARNTERS IN CRIME? That's an awful lot of No's IMO.
And I'm not trying to purpsely stir people up. I just can't see how anyone can sit still for the degeneration of such a good show, a great show to what it is currently and honestly right now it's not even a show. I guess I want to know how others feel about it, honestly and not just so that they can say nice things about a show and not really mean it. I'm amazed at how the show still has followers after so many poor stories, some of them in a row and so many poor "offshoot" jokey things. Truly, I'm not trying to make people angry but see their point of view about all of this. It still amazes me that ANYONE can like THE TRIAL OF A TIME LORD, TIME AND THE RANI, and PARADISE TOWERS. And I wonder why people defend stuff like the current crop of "specials". Pehaps I"m just taking it all too seriously but I do know what i Like and what makes me feel cheated.
As for charity shows, look at the COMIC RELIEF bit when David had first regenerated and it was in the TARDIS. Frankly that was brilliant! Totally awesome AND a part of the series. It had Rose's first meeting with the Tenth Doctor and both Billie and David were awesome in it. Then years later we get TIME CRASH. Doesn't anyone see the difference?
I'm sorry if I'm going to sound rude here but seriously mate, get over it.
I can't stand seeing all this hate you always seem to be sprouting.
Doctor Who is thriving and it's fantastic, if you don't like it don't watch it, please stop complaining about it and making assumptions that are totally not true.
You're not the only Doctor Who fan in the universe, you just got to expect that people are going to like what you hate.
And in fact, my good friend, who loves Doctor Who to pieces, became a fan watching the last few seconds of Last of the Timelords... that was his FIRST story.
I only made it through part of the 3rd paragraph, and I could tell this was yet another anti-RTD rant. Seriously dude, this is getting old. We know how you feel about new Who, particularly RTD.
It brings to mind the old adage: A guy walks into his doctor's office and says, "Doc, it hurts whenever I swing my arm like this." So the doctor says, "Well then don't swing your arm like that."
Translation: You don't like new Who. We get that. It's time for you to stop watching, putting yourself through this constant punishment. Really.
You're like Wile E. Coyote and RTD is The Road Runner. Why he thinks he can catch that bird is beyond me, but he keeps trying. Complaining about RTD isn't going to make him leave any quicker, nor is it going to make the BBC go back and remake all of his stories that you dislike.
I'm no fan of Russell's lately either, but why do I watch? Because for every L&M, there's a Girl in the Fireplace; for every Last of the Time Lords, there's a Blink; for every Planet of the Dead, there's a Midnight. You have to take the good with the bad. That's life.
Romana II, did your friend ever watch all of LAST OF THE TIME LORDS? If so what did he think?
Case in point: a new movie is announced. Will it ever get made? If not, this just mirrors the dead late 80s and almost all of the first half of the 1990s and as we all know NO cinematic film was made in the 1990s...we just got a TV movie that was doomed to failure before it even aired...so what we have here is another parallel to the "dead" years of DW...
Oh and David is now going to appear on Sarah Jane's show. WOW! More gimmicks and more invasions from space. To everyone's hopes, I might just be done iwth this show until Matt Smith arrives...and then we shall see.
His partner was actually watching the episode (she's been a fan since childhood) and he walked in during the scene when the Master was dying and he was transfixed.
Then he went back and watched the story (starting with Utopia) and it's one of his favourite new Who stories ever
Some people love that story, myself included.
Different opinions really.
Wow Chase, you never seem to tire of saying the same kind of stuff over and over again! I just skim read your posts these days... Before I found them amusing but now they are just a rant. IMO you are very, very wrong about new Doctor Who and RTD (who is going by the way, did you know that? Never to return...). You think Last Of The Timelords is bad, I think it is excellent. You think Time Crash is garbage, I think it is excellent. You make all these statements about how Doctor Who is losing its quality, how RTD is destroying the show... I think the quality is excellent (and as you know from my Star Trek post, I am quite capable of getting passionate and criticising shows that I love although I do it in a constructive way whereas your criticisms are in EVERY WAY destructive. As a fan I find your style of writing insulting and if I was RTD reading your posts I would probably find it insulting too). I think it is time that you seriously consider the fact that you are no longer a fan of Doctor Who. Maybe you should consider giving Moffat a try and if you don't like the direction the show is going you should stop watching. The pure venom and anger you have towards our excellent show cannot be healthy for you and maybe for your own sake you should let it go and stick to Doctor Who from 1963 - 1981! I know you are passionate and I know you are only expressing your point of view but you do it in SUCH a negative way that it appears that you just want to try to upset the people who are really enjoying the show.
I have some problems with "New" Doctor Who, some of them are the same as yours but I still recognise that all in all we are VERY LUCKY to have this show on our screens made by people who LOVE Doctor Who (RTD, who is leaving by the way, LOVES this show). Is every episode perfect...? No, but every episode has something good about it! You have decided not to see the good anymore and instead focus on what you consider to be bad, so once again, I suggest you seriously consider stopping watching it... You obviously don't like it very much anymore!!!
Oh and as for the Tonights The Night, it is not Doctor Who, it is not cannon, it is a light entertanment show and it was just a sketch. It wasn't a sign that the show is no longer being taken seriously it was just a sign of how popular the show is. It was silly but I found it amusing... I even laughed out loud!
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