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     Home »  The Christopher Eccleston Era »  Continuity Questions
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    Continuity Questions Views: 3225
     Friday, July 21 2006 @ 09:34 PM EDT
    If this has been adressed elsewhere, please forgive.
    upon repeated viewings of the Eccleston season, which I now have on dvd, I wondered something about the continuity, so I'll present some points.
    1) In "Rose" When the doctor sees himself in a mirror in Rose's flat, he notices his ears, and says something about his physical appearance, even ears, implying that he'd never seen himself before. This leads me to believe that he is pretty fresh from his regeneration. Either that, or they don't have mirrors in the tardis, or any other places he's been, which is a stretch.
    2) When we see the conspiracy theorist that Rose meets with later in the same episode, we see pictures of the 9th doctor in other points in time, such as the JFK motorcade, the titanic era, etc., and THIS implies to me that he's been on quite a few earth adventures in his 9th doctor form.
    conclusion:
    How come he didn't know what he looked like but had been regenerated long enough to have his picture taken in at least three different periods of time? I know that this is probably just the writers wanting to reference a regeneration in the pilot for those in the audience who were waiting for something referencing the 8th doctor, but I was wondering if there is an "in story" explanation. Any takers?

    Heath Holland
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     Friday, July 21 2006 @ 10:08 PM EDT
    that's nothing! While Rose is getting her face attacked by the plastic hand, Jackie is in the bedroom drying her hair and doesn't notice the commotion - the problem? Her hair is already DRY! *duhnduhn DUHN!!!*

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Friday, July 21 2006 @ 10:21 PM EDT
    I agree with your point 1, the Doctor demeanor at the start of "Rose" certainly makes it appear he had recently regenerated. However, the Doctor is typically tired and disorientated after a regeneration (See Jon Pertwee - Spearhead from Space, Tom Baker - Robot, Ten - The Christmas Invation), whilst Nine is very lucid and ready for action. He is after all half way through an adventure when we meet him.

    If it weren't for the fact that the ninth Doctor regenerated in The Parting of the Ways, the explanation would be simple. i.e. He would visit those events in his future.

    As Louis mentioned elsewhere in the forums if Clive had showed Rose pictures which had the Doctor and herself in them the situation would be somewhat easier, as they would merely be part of the "unfilmed" adventures. If one takes the Ninth and Tenth doctor novels, these are sanctioned by the BBC and RTD, and are part of the Canon. Trivially, these occur between the televized (sp?) adventures.

    The fact that the Doctor appears solo in all the pictures does not eliminate this possibility (i.e these things happened in our past but the Doctor's future with respect to "Rose"), but significantly stretches the viewers Suspension of Disbelieve, as he and Rose appear inseparable for the most part. (Perhaps she had a couple of vacations with her mum during the series that we were not privy too).



    In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are Kings
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     Friday, July 21 2006 @ 10:35 PM EDT
    The photos/drawing Clive shows Rose are of the Kennedy assassination, a family photo from before the Titanic set sail, and a drawing of him standing by some palm trees washed up on the island of Sumatra.

    It's possible to imagine that he wasn't able to catch a mirror in the crowd of people at the Kennedy assassination. (though why he'd show up to watch somebody be murdered is another story) It's also possible to imagine that he didn't run into any mirrors on a tropical island. That he didn't get to see a mirror of himself in Victorian England is a little bit more of a stretch but I'm willing to go with it! Smile

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Friday, July 21 2006 @ 10:41 PM EDT
    It does look like he brought his own "wing mirrors" Big Grin

    In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are Kings
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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 01:46 AM EDT


    Well, we know that the TARDIS has at least one mirror in the wardrobe room (plus didn't we see some mirrors in some of the companion's rooms during the 5th Doctor's era?). We can assume that the 9th Doctor assimilated his outfit in a similar fashion of the 3rd Doctor or the 8th Doctor... not from the wardrobe room (unless he did so while avoiding the mirror there). He could have been brooding after his regeneration if it was brought on by the Time War which resulted in the destruction of "his people" -- and thus avoided mirrors for some time (perhaps sort of like within the Jewish faith when mirrors are covered during shiva).

    So he may had intentionally avoided his reflection for a little while after his regeneration while he had a few adventures in Earth's history (where else). When he saw himself in the mirror in Rose perhaps he just happened to stumble into it... still it is kind of hard to believe he had avoided his reflection for all that long.

    What we do know is that the Doctor is in the middle of investigating Autons/Nestine being back on Earth in 2005 when he meets Rose... We do know his mental faculties seem to be pretty much there (he's not disoriented after a regeneration... but if memory serves neither was 2nd Doctor after regenerating from the 1st). We can assume at least a few days have passed if not more since his regeneration. But still, I do think Rose takes place fairly soon into his 9th regeneration only because it is hard to believe he had avoided seeing his reflection at all for too long...

    As for Rose not being in some of the photos and drawings that Clive had amassed... Perhaps Rose was taking the picture or drew the drawing. While that is a stretch... we have no evidence that she had any artistic talent that we saw. It could be that she was not with the Doctor while the photo/drawing were created. We did see her wondering off on her own quit a bit especially in the 2006 series with the 10th Doctor, perhaps that pattern started in the un-televised adventures with the 9th Doctor?

    What would have been better in the episode Rose would have been for Rose to see herself in one of the images along with the Doctor. That would have creeped her out more and would made her more intrigued by this new stranger in her life.

    Perhaps all this will be explained in some form some time in the future, but I don't look for it in the television series today, I doubt that RTD would ever go backwards to explain it.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 08:54 AM EDT
    I think we're going to have to decide that the writing could have been a bit more polished in this area. It's a glaring error, seemingly, and any "in story" explanations are reaching a little far for me. Star Wars gets these errors all the time, and sometimes you just have to let it go, I suppose, and enjoy the ride.
    (still bugs me, though)

    Heath Holland
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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 09:17 AM EDT
    [Quote  by: Louis] Perhaps Rose was taking the picture or drew the drawing.


    I think think this is a good explanation. I also think it's possible that right after an unstable regeneration the Doctor went off to visit places breiefly, just to say he had been there. Or perhaps he forgot if he had been there and wanted to reconfirm it so he quickly pops back to the titanic, to the Kenney assasisination and Sumatra. There is no indication he had a full blown adventure in each case. Perhaps with Kennedy he just wanted to go and solve the case himself, or just wanted to be there. Just fresh from a regeneration, who knows what the Doctor was thinking.

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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 12:51 PM EDT
    I don't think that there exists a single television show or movie which can withstand the intense scrutiny of the diehard fan.

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 02:01 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Magpie] I don't think that there exists a single television show or movie which can withstand the intense scrutiny of the diehard fan.
    True, but some episodes of some shows have flaws that are obvious, and some which require multiple viewings to really catch. For me, "Rose"'s flaws were fairly superficial, if for no other reason than that the plot itself didn't demand so much scrutiny. The continuity question being discussed here has bugged me since my very first viewing. At the time, I tucked it away, thinking that perhaps the pictures Clive showed would be a bit of a breadcrumb trail for the rest of the season, but, no, Clive (and his research) entirely died when he was shot. Shame, cause there was definitely an opportunity missed there for a continuing thread.

    For me, the more troubling continuity surrounding Clive isn't that he presents pictures of a Doctor having many adventures when another scene appears to suggest that he's newly regenerated. It's that they put this idea forward that ordinary people have been able to follow the movements of the Doctor through time, but then fail to address that in any meaningful way until "Love and Monsters".

    For instance, Mickey was hounded by the police for a year over Rose's disappearance, and yet he never thought to give the police Clive's address? Sure, Clive was dead, but there was evidence of some kind there in the house that was directly relevant to his case. And he knew where the house was!

    I thought, too, that the PM's approach to finding the Doctor in "The Christmas Invasion" was somewhat passive. Why not engage "Clive's nutters" a little bit? Just a brief scene of them trying to actively find the Doctor, rather than just hoping for a "Code 9"? [As an aside, I think this will be a glaring continuity error in the pilot for Torchwood. I really don't expect RTD to tell us why, after the PM issues a call for the Doctor, we didn't have Captain Jack show up to do a scan for the TARDIS. The very fact that London Torchwood seems surprised to have actually found the TARDIS suggests that Jack's knowledge hasn't been put to use. Course, I guess it's possible he's not on Earth at this time, but I kinda expect for it to be "messy" from a continuity standpoint.]

    One of the strengths of "Rose" was this sense that the Doctor was bad for the planet, and it disappointed me, from a continuity standpoint, that this all but vanished after "Rose".

    Now, sure, maybe this will all be the subtext of Torchwood, and that'd be great, but I still think we should've gotten the odd scene here and there where the ghost of Clive reared his head.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." JNT, 1986
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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 03:01 PM EDT
    I just don't see how a 45 minute tv program in 13 episodes with nearly 40 years of back-history and a premise which allows for almost infinately variable plotlines could possibly address the multitudinous "issues" we Whoheads could come up with.

    Some things get cut due to time constraints and sometimes things need to be added for viewer clarity. The Clive scene introduces NEW viewers to the concept that the Doctor travels through time and visits the Earth. Showing us pictures of Pertwee or Peter Davison or Tom Baker would have been pretty meaningless to new viewers.

    Sometimes things need to be left on the cutting-room floor, and sometimes you gotta hit the viewer over the head for the sake of clarity. Doesn't bother me as a viewer or a fan.

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 03:46 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Magpie] ...
    Some things get cut due to time constraints and sometimes things need to be added for viewer clarity. The Clive scene introduces NEW viewers to the concept that the Doctor travels through time and visits the Earth. Showing us pictures of Pertwee or Peter Davison or Tom Baker would have been pretty meaningless to new viewers.

    ...


    Yes, and no. I understand with what you are saying completely and agree to a certain extent, but perhaps I am the exception to this, and not the rule. Although I first starting watching Doctor Who in the late 70's, because of when it was on in my area, I was only an occasional viewer of it. It was in the early 80's when I really got into the series and become a 'fan.' By then, the series was roughly 20 years old. So it had this rich history... so much of it, I had not seen and was completely unfamiliar with at the time. At that time, I had not seen any Doctors prior to Tom Baker... I became aware of them, but it was all unknown territory. But this was for me, a feature of the series. At that time, we only had 3 seasons of Star Trek that I already knew backwards and forwards... and the same could be said with so many other science fiction series to that point in that time period. But here we have a series with such a rich textured background, which was all new fertile ground to explore. So any crumb or nugget of information from Doctor Who years past at that point, I gobbled up as a tasty morsel of delicious fun. It added to the whole mystery of the title character and the series as a whole. In Robot and Terror of the Zygons as well as other early Tom Baker stories that featured UNIT -- it was clear that there was some history here, with these characters from the Doctor's past.. So when I finally had the chance to explore the Jon Pertwee era, it was even more interesting to see how much UNIT played a part in the series at that time and learn more about these characters that I actually first seen during Tom Baker's era.

    For me, all references to the show's history only drew me in further. It never "alienated" me as some say it will do with viewers today that are not familiar with past Doctor Who series/seasons. For me, this is one of the great assets of the show. Of course, you can't over do it, but now and then for elements of the Doctor's past to surface or for the audience to gain some insight to perhaps something that may had happened in years pass which the viewer then has the option to further explore later on, only adds to the depth and dimension of the series. Perhaps this is one of the reasons I enjoy School Reunion so much in the 2006 series.

    So I feel it would have been a nice touch if somewhere within all the stuff that Clive had amassed and later on with L.I.N.D.A. that we saw perhaps one reference to an earlier incarnation of the Doctor in the collected material relating to this mysterious person known as "the Doctor" that they had been investigating.

    Since the series has such a rich history, it would be a shame to simply ignore it. Using it when it works into the story, is a plus. Of course, we shouldn't get lost in it's history either. Though I think there have been couple lost opportunities since the series has returned to television so far.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 03:55 PM EDT
    [Quote  by: Louis] For me, all references to the show's history only drew me in further.


    I agree. Knowing that there was history behind the Doctor drew me in even further. I think 'people' are not given enough credit. People are much more intelligent than others give them credit. If I'm watching a sereis and I know there is a histry, do I stop watching it? Nope, it draws me in even further or I just simply ignore it. I think for the majority, that's what many people do.

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     Saturday, July 22 2006 @ 04:27 PM EDT
    I agree that it would have been neat to see pics of previous incarnations, but even that in itself opens up a new can of worms i.e. how would Clive know that it's the same person in different bodies, or then they'd have to have a longer conversation about different faces with the same name... and all the sudden you've got a 5 minutes of dialogue when you are allowed 3 minutes to tell it. Not to mention, you'd be stealing the thunder from the surprise regeneration at the end of Series 1.

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Friday, August 04 2006 @ 12:33 PM EDT
    What about the Doc's Age?

    "Please Refrain From Calling Me Doc!"

    Sorry Doctor!

    He said it was 900, which contridicts previous doctors!

    "Now Brigadeer, have I ever led you astray?" "On many ocassions!" "Ah.. well... this will be the exception!"
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