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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S3-Epi8 'Human Nature'
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    S3-Epi8 'Human Nature' Views: 5939
     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 09:53 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]Also somewhere I read even wilder speculation that John Smith has a Grandfather clock in his room wondering if that could be the Masters Tardis.


    Noticed that as well. Looked like a very delibertly framed shot to take it in as well. Facinating that The Master's TARDIS only appeared in the form of a Grandfather Clock two times (The Deadly Assassin and The Keeper of Traken), and yet is the icon that is most remembered.

    Cheers,
    Mike M.

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 10:13 AM EDT
    SUCH a great episode! And (I'm sorry to say) made even better by the fact that the last few episodes haven't acheived more than a "meh" from me) I cannot wait for the next one!

    Interesting that the Tardis created a backstory for the Doctor that involved him being what I would consider a "Mr. Chips"-type (pre-meeting the chorus girl, of course). He became a man with the attitudes of the 1910s upper-middle class (including treating servants like lesser humans). Found that unexpected since the Doctor is usually so into treating everyone the same. But! It was such a splendid acting job! I couldn't decide whether I was watching Doctor Who or Masterpiece Theater for a while!

    I'm not going to say more right now, definitely waiting for the second episode, but I have kind of decided that the preview shown for next week is one of Tim's glimpses into the future (which, as we all know, is not finite).

    supremacy is relative
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 11:43 AM EDT
    Good episode. Have to wait for part 2 to make an overall assessment. Still plenty of time to ruin it with over-the-top, giant, Slitheen-like monsters chasing them around the school campus Scooby-Doo style, and then pull a victory out of thin air with the do-it-all sonic screwdriver. Enough sarcasm (albeit very justified this season)...on to various thoughts:

    I've only watched the episode once so far, and may have missed an explanation, but did they explain why Martha didn't just retain the watch herself for safe keeping? If it's so important that The Doctor put some sort of perception filter around it, so as to not accidentally muck with it, then what is the point of keeping it out in the open of his office, if for no other reason than for somebody to steal it and advance the story? Or better yet, why not leave it in the TARDIS (which is also hidden) until the right moment?

    Loved the journal sketches! Very interesting that Paul McGann was the front-and-center regeneration. This is sure to get the "Time War" movie rumors circulating again (or perhaps this is where they originated - somebody caught wind of this scene in advance?) Seems like apart from the Big Finish audios, McGann is often overlooked. His one-shot movie is not generally associated with either the classic or new series, and seems to be left in a kind of in-between-limbo. I understand RTD not wanting to live in the shadow of the classic series and wanting to give his own personal touch to the new, but I'd love it if he could officially bridge the gap, and give us all the McGann-Eccleston regeneration we've been craving. FWIW, I thought the bottom left Doctor was Tom Baker at first as well...but I suppose I can see some Colin Baker in it, as the official site seems to say. Very poor likeness in an otherwise fantastic ode to the previous Doctors. I wonder what the thought process was when deciding to show 7, 8, and 1 prominently (1st and last Doctors from the classic series?), as well as 5 and 6...Or perhaps why they chose not to show 2, 3, 4 and 9. Would've been an interesting production meeting for sure.

    Not quite as scary as I had hoped, but still had a good amount of scare-factor. Also not thrilled with what seems to be re-hashing of themes from previous Who stories (last week's Impossible Planet remake, School Reunion, Rise of the Cybermen, etc...)

    I hope that Podcast guys have an end-of-the-year series reflection show. I can't wait to hear everybody's reflections on this season as a whole...would be an interesting podcast. I'm still amazed by the comments of some people gushing over this season's episodes. Two-thirds of the way through filled with stories that are average at best, although this 2 parter has potential to be 4 groans or better. Here's hoping Captain Jack can do more than save the world as we approach the final month of shows.

    One final tidbit: is it just me, or did the young girl with the balloon remind anybody else of the girl from Remembrance of the Daleks? Not necessarily appearence-wise, but just in general character terms. She seemed a bit out of place (it was a boys-only boarding school, right?)

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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 11:49 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  sgb1975] ...
    One final tidbit: is it just me, or did the young girl with the balloon remind anybody else of the girl from Remembrance of the Daleks? Not necessarily appearence-wise, but just in general character terms. She seemed a bit out of place (it was a boys-only boarding school, right?)


    Yep, I mentioned it in the latest live Doctor Who: Podshock episode (#82). I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it did add to the overall classic Doctor Who familiarity of this episode for me.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 09:24 PM EDT
    Am I the only one who thought that this episode subtly hinted at some sort of explanation for the 1996 Movie's claim that the doctor was "half human?" We now know that the Doctor has the ability to alter his own species, so that might have been in play. Perhaps the seventh doctor had altered his species because of something to do with the Eye of Harmony only being accessible to humans, and the eighth inherited that? Not to mention the fact that the chameleon arch bears a slight resemblance to the harnesses used in the same movie, if I recall. I think I'm digressing, though.

    Great episode. Loved it and cannot wait for the second part.

    tawm.net: read it. (please?)
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 09:31 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Tawm] ...
    Not to mention the fact that the chameleon arch bears a slight resemblance to the harnesses used in the same movie, if I recall. I think I'm digressing, though.

    Great episode. Loved it and cannot wait for the second part.


    Yep, I made a comment about that as well (though I don't recall if it was during the recording of episode 82 or prior to it).

    If nothing else, perhaps the Master altered the Chameleon Arch for his own purposes in TVM (adding those Clockwork Orange-like eye ball apparatus to it).

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 10:04 PM EDT
    By the way, in Confidential, David Tennant talks about using scarecrows for the first time ever...

    ...unless you've seen "The Mark of the Rani".

    Now admittedly the scarecrow in question doesn't come out and attack, it clearly moves its head while watching the Doctor and Peri as they walk across the landscape.

    Not such a new idea.

    -M-

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 10:10 PM EDT
    I had to secretly watch the episode while my wife was out, as she wants to wait until we have parts one and two to watch. She hates two-parters. Big Grin

    I really liked this episode. I downloaded an ebook copy of the the original Human Nature book, but I avoided reading it so I could fully enjoy the show. I thought the whole cast did a fantastic job. The guy who plays Baines plays alien infected creepy really well. Smile I was going crazy trying to figure out who the young kid playing Latimer was, and ended up having to go to IMDB to see he was in Love Actually and Nanny McPhee. This may be my favorite episode of the season so far. I really hope that part 2 keeps everything the same. I thought part 1 of the Dalek was ok, but thought part 2 was terrible. Hopefully, that won't be the case here. The previews for part 2 almost make it look like it's going to be similar to the Trek:TNG episode Inner Light where Picard lives a full life with wife and kids in 20 minutes while zapped by a probe.

    The journal of impossible things was really cool. Maybe they'll sell it as a real book come Christmas. I'm intrigued by the Doctor's memories of World War 1 that Latimer seems to have.

    I'm always hesitant to give out a five without seeing the season in context, but I may be willing to go out on a limb for this episode.

    -L

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 10:19 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter] By the way, in Confidential, David Tennant talks about using scarecrows for the first time ever...

    ...unless you've seen "The Mark of the Rani".

    Now admittedly the scarecrow in question doesn't come out and attack, it clearly moves its head while watching the Doctor and Peri as they walk across the landscape.

    Not such a new idea.

    -M-


    Mentioned that and the 2nd Doctor's last comic apperaence in chat (TalkShoe). Troughton's Doctor was draged away for his forced regeneration by animated scarecrows.

    Cheers,
    Mike M.

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Tuesday, May 29 2007 @ 11:07 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    Every single hero, who's been around for any significant length of time, has explored his or her "human nature" at some point. Most obviously, this is, as Cornell himself admits in the preface to his book and in the episode's attendant Confidential, Doctor Who does Superman II. But it's also Spiderman 2, Star Wars: A New Hope, Kirk and Spock meet Joan Collins, the first month of Smallville's season 5—even, dare I say it without intent of blasphemy, Jesus in the wilderness. And it doesn't hold a candle to the very best televised episode of this ilk, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine's "Far Beyond the Stars".


    Thank you again, WGN, for screwing with DS9's schedule back when it was on the air. I missed so much of the last two or three seasons it was on the air. It was either pre-empted for sports, moved to different times, or countless other things. If the DVDs weren't so damn overpriced I would just buy them.

    Evil

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:28 AM EDT
    Actually, you should throw away your preconceptions about Star Trek DVD prices. In their most recent pressing of the discs, Paramount's recognized that they're not going to get that ridiculous $100+ price anymore. So DS9 season collections have recently dropped dramatically. They're listing on Amazon at $50-60, about half of their initial offering price. You can get 'em on Ebay for about the retail price of a double-disc Doctor Who episode. Twenty-two hours of television for about the price of a single DW DVD? That's a bargain.

    And you should count yourself lucky that you kinda missed seasons 5-7. They should be seen in consecutive order, and on DVD, anyway. You get so much more out of DS9 if you think of each episode as a chapter in a book.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:43 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley]Mentioned that and the 2nd Doctor's last comic apperaence in chat (TalkShoe). Troughton's Doctor was draged away for his forced regeneration by animated scarecrows.

    Cheers,
    Mike M.
    Awww, man. I wish I'd been awake at that point. Yes, indeedy: "The Night Walkers", inspiration to a ton of great ideas that we've since seen incorporated into televised Doctor Who. The Season 6b Theory ("The Two Doctors" and various books). The game show appearance as preface to regeneration ("Bad Wolf"). And scarecrows on a hunt for a Time Lord ("Human Nature"). I doubt any TV Comic, much less a lowly three-parter (six pages), has ever done so much for the core mythology of the Doctor. What a madly inventive little strip!

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 05:28 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] If the perception filter around the watch can disguise the Doctor's Gallifreyan "essence", why couldn't the Doctor just put a perception filter around himself?


    The perception filter was so that the Doctor, or rather John Smith, doesn't open the watch, not so that it is hidden from others. The perception filter was written in as part of the personality encoded by the chameleon arch. The whole point is that John Smith is not supposed to be aware of his Timelord nature. But like all TARDIS systems, this just doesn't work at 100%. The Doctor is too close to the surface.

    The perception filter doesn't effect others. No need to, though I doubt how you would explain how it could work on others.
    But if the perception filter doesn't work to obscure the watch from "The Family" then what's the point? The implication of your assertion is that, had the watch been in the room at the time the Family ransacked Smith's office, they'd have been drawn to it. Which means that the Doctor's plan depended upon the watch being lost to the Doctor and Martha. That makes little sense, but I'll allow it could be explained better in part 2, once we know fully what Timothy's deal is.

    Still, as we see in Torchwood, perception filters at least can work in a very generalized way; else The Hub would be overrun by gawkers. (Course, the fatal flaw of TW's perception filter is that Jack's a big ol' attention whore who can't resist engraving the word "Torchwood" on his car.) There's no good explanation why, if the Doctor's trying to hide, and he's got a technology that can hide him in plain sight, why he needs to biologically alter himself then hide the watch from himself. The more direct line of logic is just to land the TARDIS in a period of time where police boxes were actively in use, put a perception filter around the TARDIS, and wait until the Family dies out.

    We haven't seen part 2 yet, of course, but I don't think it's too early to say that the book's reason for the Doctor becoming human—just that the Doctor wanted to—made more immediate sense.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 06:15 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley]
    [Quote  by:  daveac]Also somewhere I read even wilder speculation that John Smith has a Grandfather clock in his room wondering if that could be the Masters Tardis.


    Noticed that as well. Looked like a very delibertly framed shot to take it in as well. Facinating that The Master's TARDIS only appeared in the form of a Grandfather Clock two times (The Deadly Assassin and The Keeper of Traken), and yet is the icon that is most remembered.

    Cheers,
    Mike M.


    To me it's the greek column I most remember as the Master's TARDIS. But I do recall it being a Grandfather Clock.

    Hence my use of both in "The Second Key". In that story you see a Grandfather Clock AND a Greek Column as the Master's TARDIS.

    Sean.

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 08:00 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  sgb1975]Not quite as scary as I had hoped, but still had a good amount of scare-factor. Also not thrilled with what seems to be re-hashing of themes from previous Who stories (last week's Impossible Planet remake, School Reunion, Rise of the Cybermen, etc...)


    At the end, when they were at the dance and the scarecrows were massing outside I did have a moment where I thought it was going to be a rehash of the Rise of the Cybermen cliff-hanger (and I supposed it could be argued that it kinda sorta was).

    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Actually, you should throw away your preconceptions about Star Trek DVD prices. In their most recent pressing of the discs, Paramount's recognized that they're not going to get that ridiculous $100+ price anymore. So DS9 season collections have recently dropped dramatically. They're listing on Amazon at $50-60, about half of their initial offering price. You can get 'em on Ebay for about the retail price of a double-disc Doctor Who episode. Twenty-two hours of television for about the price of a single DW DVD? That's a bargain.


    I'll have to look around. I would have loved to get the X-Files and DS9 on DVD but when they were new, it was just too expensive. There's a reason I own seven seasons of Buffy and no seasons of Trek or X-Files. And it's all about the Benjamins.

    Wink

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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