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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S3-Epi8 'Human Nature'
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    S3-Epi8 'Human Nature' Views: 6035
     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 09:33 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] But if the perception filter doesn't work to obscure the watch from "The Family" then what's the point? The implication of your assertion is that, had the watch been in the room at the time the Family ransacked Smith's office, they'd have been drawn to it. Which means that the Doctor's plan depended upon the watch being lost to the Doctor and Martha. That makes little sense, but I'll allow it could be explained better in part 2, once we know fully what Timothy's deal is.

    The Timelord essence is only detectable by the family whilst the watch is open. This should be obvious from the on screen reactions of the family when the watch is open. Also, the watch is pretty dull, most likely made of lead, or other such material to prevent the detection of the contents. So, unless the watch was open, the family would have no reason to pay special attention to the watch.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 09:42 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]The Timelord essence is only detectable by the family whilst the watch is open. This should be obvious from the on screen reactions of the family when the watch is open. Also, the watch is pretty dull, most likely made of lead, or other such material to prevent the detection of the contents. So, unless the watch was open, the family would have no reason to pay special attention to the watch.


    But that in itself is problematic... there's a pocket watch lying on the mantel of Dr. Smith's office, and no one is expected to ever OPEN it???

    Smith himself seems to more or less ignore it (due to conditioning) but others might see it and pop it open to have a look at the time, or to examine a good-looking watch... seems a bit iffy to me.

    Not that I'm dissing the show because I quite liked it, but if we're going to nitpick it, that's a major one right there.

    It would be like having my TARDIS be my fridge in my apartment, expecting no one to ever open it and find out it's not what it seems.

    Sean.

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 11:43 AM EDT
    screen cap from the flash opening on the updated BBC website.

    http://members.cox.net/rengobnor/ ..... Yahoo messenger -- rengob_nor
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 11:50 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tardisious] screen cap from the flash opening on the updated BBC website.


    Oh cool... I didn't even see this on the site...

    Very cool. OK, we can see more Doctors here.

    On the top left there is Tom Baker (Doctor #4), Jon Pertwee (Doctor #3) in the middle, and on the top right there is Patrick Troughton (Doctor #2).

    On the other page (left facing page) on the bottom we see David Tennant himself (Doctor #10) on the left there is Christopher Eccleston (Doctor #9).

    So all ten are represented!

    Great. Good work Tardisous!

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 12:00 PM EDT
    Many thanks for that image.

    Well bottom left is clearly now 'Colin Baker' not Tom - and of course Tom is there top left.

    The only drawing difficult to see is top centre - but it must be Jon Pertwee.

    I'm going to upoad a copy to my site to complete the 'Journal' pages.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 12:12 PM EDT
    just loaded a higher res cap and replaced the file
    the entire flash is at
    http://www.bbc.co.uk//doctorwho/homepages/flash/309.swf
    if anyone wants to download it

    http://members.cox.net/rengobnor/ ..... Yahoo messenger -- rengob_nor
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 02:11 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]The Timelord essence is only detectable by the family whilst the watch is open. This should be obvious from the on screen reactions of the family when the watch is open. Also, the watch is pretty dull, most likely made of lead, or other such material to prevent the detection of the contents. So, unless the watch was open, the family would have no reason to pay special attention to the watch.


    But that in itself is problematic... there's a pocket watch lying on the mantel of Dr. Smith's office, and no one is expected to ever OPEN it???

    Smith himself seems to more or less ignore it (due to conditioning) but others might see it and pop it open to have a look at the time, or to examine a good-looking watch... seems a bit iffy to me.

    Not that I'm dissing the show because I quite liked it, but if we're going to nitpick it, that's a major one right there.

    It would be like having my TARDIS be my fridge in my apartment, expecting no one to ever open it and find out it's not what it seems.

    Sean.

    Hence the Doctor's blunder... One can't think straight when one is being chased through all of time and space by the family of blood...

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 03:23 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] But if the perception filter doesn't work to obscure the watch from "The Family" then what's the point? The implication of your assertion is that, had the watch been in the room at the time the Family ransacked Smith's office, they'd have been drawn to it. Which means that the Doctor's plan depended upon the watch being lost to the Doctor and Martha. That makes little sense, but I'll allow it could be explained better in part 2, once we know fully what Timothy's deal is.

    The Timelord essence is only detectable by the family whilst the watch is open. This should be obvious from the on screen reactions of the family when the watch is open. Also, the watch is pretty dull, most likely made of lead, or other such material to prevent the detection of the contents. So, unless the watch was open, the family would have no reason to pay special attention to the watch.
    Not sure I buy that, either, since the Family arrive on the scene prior to the TARDIS being opened by Martha for (ostensibly) the first time since our heroes arrived in that time, and prior to Timothy's opening of the watch. What led them to Cooper's Field in the first place? The Doctor and Martha have been there for, what, two months? Why all of a sudden do the Family turn up?

    And Smith's interaction with the pocket watch is just . . . weird. He's seen picking it up early in the story. His journal has a massive page about it. But when it's lost, and Martha directs his attention to the spot where it laid, he acts as if he's never remembered having a pocket watch at all. That's just, frankly, silly. The line shouldn't have been "I don't remember having a pocket watch." But something like, "That old thing? Why in the world do you care about that, Jones? It doesn't even work." Cornell mixed his Torchwood references. It's protected by a perception filter, not a vial of Retcon.

    This tacked on "chase-after-a-hiding-Doctor" is, for me, a much bigger logical problem than the scientific objections given two weeks ago about a spacecraft's rendezvous with a star in 42. At least in 42 the script bothered to suggest that there were heat shields capable of withstanding a sun for a certain length of time. Might be utter tosh scientifically, but narratively it's there and it's consistent. Here, the "house" of the plot is built on a very shaky foundation indeed.

    Thank God the rest of the episode is so bloody good. But, unless the character of TImothy pulls a rabbit out of Cornell's hat, it really is shaping up to be "Father's Day" again. Setup's illogical as all hell, but the emotion and dialogue rock. Despite my own personal problems with the script, I'm still rather marveling at the fact that we're in a time when the emotional weight of a Doctor Who story can cover (what I think are) massive plot problems.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:45 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]]Not sure I buy that, either, since the Family arrive on the scene prior to the TARDIS being opened by Martha for (ostensibly) the first time since our heroes arrived in that time, and prior to Timothy's opening of the watch. What led them to Cooper's Field in the first place? The Doctor and Martha have been there for, what, two months? Why all of a sudden do the Family turn up?


    Yes, it was (ostensibly) before Martha opened up the Tardis for the first time, but weren't the Family chasing the Tardis through time and space? So, they followed it and that's how they got to Cooper's Field.

    It sort of reminded me of the Doctor and Rose following the Chula warship's destress signal (it's Mauve) through to WWII London and landing one month after the warship did. They followed closely, but that was a close as they could get. So "John Smith" had two months to blend in with the locals and lose all trace of The Time Lord "scent." I was thinking it faded just like all scents fade for bloodhounds of any kind.

    supremacy is relative
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:50 PM EDT
    Firstly, I think this episode is one of the most enjoyable hours of RTD's Doctor Who so far. I was sold within the first 5 minutes.

    Secondly, I have to agree with just about everything DarthSkeptical has said. The logic behind how the watch was handled makes no sense (for instance, why would Martha leave it out where anyone could snatch it, or for that matter, why not just keep it in the TARDIS?). It seems it was just a way to get it into Timothy's hands. Does anyone know if the book contains a better reason for leaving the watch out in the open?

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:54 PM EDT

    There is nothing to suggest that John Smith moved the TARDIS, so the general space-time coordinates of the current setting would be where the trail to the Timelord vanishes. That is what leads the family there... but the scent has gone cold until the watch is opened.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:55 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  rocko] Does anyone know if the book contains a better reason for leaving the watch out in the open?


    Well I've got to say it Big Grin

    It's so John Smith can tell the time! Wink

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:56 PM EDT
    I meant also to mention that I think some of the little criticisms we have might be a result of the ca. 45-minute episode durations. This has been my biggest bone to pick with the new series since day one. It seems that since there is little-to-no time for exposition, details (like the handling of the watch in this episode) get glossed over too much for my taste. I would prefer a slightly slower pace that gave more time for explanations and more interesting solutions to problems (more interesting, to pick an obvious example, than just mixing together all the medicines in a hospital to cure everyone of everything all at once). Of course, I also have not been keeping up with all the extra on-line content or the Confidentials.

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 04:57 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  rocko] Does anyone know if the book contains a better reason for leaving the watch out in the open?


    Well I've got to say it Big Grin

    It's so John Smith can tell the time! Wink

    Cheers, daveac


    Love it. Thanks! Big Grin

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Wednesday, May 30 2007 @ 06:34 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]
    There is nothing to suggest that John Smith moved the TARDIS, so the general space-time coordinates of the current setting would be where the trail to the Timelord vanishes. That is what leads the family there... but the scent has gone cold until the watch is opened.
    And here we get into trouble again. The script makes it reasonably clear that it is the Time Lord, and not the TARDIS, that draws the attention of the Family. That's specifically in the list of instructions:
    2. Don't worry about the TARDIS. I'll put it on emergency power so they can't detect it. Just let it hide away.
    I think it's implicit that the final trip probably couldn't have been the tip-off, anyway. I mean, what kinda plan is, "They're tracking me because I'm a Time Lord, so what I'm going to do is lead them to me, but not be me when they get here"? Please. This is the goddamned Doctor. He's faced down Dalek armies before, he's repaired fractures in the fabric of the universe, he had the balls to wipe out his own people—and he's scared of a two-bit family carnival with some stolen technology? If he didn't think that he would be completely hidden by this plan, it's out of character for him not to turn around and directly fight the Family. The implication of the plan is that he will be untraceable, period, unless the watch gets opened prior to the natural death of the Family.

    So it really makes no sense whatsoever that the Family arrives prior to the opening of the watch.

    But let's allow, for the moment, that maybe the Doctor's wrong. Maybe the final flight of the TARDIS did tip off the Family. That's cool; the Doctor's been wrong plenty of times before. That's fine and tasty sauce for the gander. But they arrive around two months after that final flight. Now if it had been demonstrated that the Family arrived in the town at the same time that Smith did, then I'd be more inclined to believe that they followed the TARDIS along her final flight path. But by this point the trail is well and truly stone cold. And time isn't relative in this case; the whole point of the exercise is that the Doctor's trying to hide them out until they die. They are in his time; every day he hides is a day off their lifespan.

    And so the question remains: If the Doctor has managed to elude them, long enough to set up shop at this school, what then draws them to the area? It's not the TARDIS. It's not the watch. The only two possibilities remaining are Martha and Tim.

    So, Tim, you're played by a fine actor. Your character's spooky and interesting. And you look an awful lot like a young David Tennant. And Martha, though you're not that similar to Bernice Summerfield, it must be remarked that the aliens in the novel knew Benny was the Doctor's companion right from the start. So, to quote the Doctor, "It all depends on you."

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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