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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S3-Ep 11 'Utopia'
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    S3-Ep 11 'Utopia' Views: 17259
     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 05:07 AM EDT
    Phew, I just read this this whole freaking thread to finally get caught up on what everyone's been saying. I was just reading about this particular episode on Wikipedia and I discovered this little nugget of info that I don't believe anyone else has mentioned here yet:

    Yana recalls that he was found as a child "on the coast of the Silver Devastation." The Silver Devastation was previously mentioned in the 2005 episode "The End of the World", in which the steward of Platform One introduces the Face of Boe as "our friend from the Silver Devastation."


    Also of note from Wiki, something else I didn't notice on my own, but:

    This is the first episode in the revived series to credit three principal cast members within the title sequence, with the addition of John Barrowman, who plays Captain Jack Harkness.

    Esco, "The Bachelor" has regenerated into Bullitt33!!!!
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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 05:17 AM EDT
    Please forgive me, perhaps this has already been mentioned on another thread somewhere, but I just noticed one more incredible (I think) nugget from Wikipedia concerning the whole anagram business:

    Derek Jacobi plays the fifth incarnation of the Master whom the Doctor has come across on screen, and John Simm is the sixth.[2] At least one television pundit has speculated whether "Mister Saxon" is an intentional anagram of "Master No. Six" or is perhaps "a big red herring".[6] The Master often showed a penchant for synonymous and anagrammical pseudonyms in the classic series, such as the name "Mr Magister" in The Dæmons.



    Oh wow, I just looked at today's date, I just made these posts on my 1 year anniversary of being registered on this website... Yay me!!!

    Esco, "The Bachelor" has regenerated into Bullitt33!!!!
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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 06:03 AM EDT
    If Jack could do it, why couldn't the Doctor cling onto the TARDIS as the Master departed and hitch a ride through the vortex???

    Esco, "The Bachelor" has regenerated into Bullitt33!!!!
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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 06:47 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  The Bachelor] If Jack could do it, why couldn't the Doctor cling onto the TARDIS as the Master departed and hitch a ride through the vortex???

    Because Jack is immortal and cannot die...The Doctor is mortal and can die. Remember when The Doctor and Martha finally landed, they found Jack dead from the journey.

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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 07:45 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  The Bachelor]
    Derek Jacobi plays the fifth incarnation of the Master whom the Doctor has come across on screen


    Actually that guy who played the Masters eyes or Eric Roberts played the 5th incarnation of The Master, depending on whether you count whoever it was in The Deadly Assassin and Geaffrey Beavers as two incarnations or one.
    Does that mean the whole "Master No Six - Mister Saxon" thing is a big red herring or a coincidence?
    Personally I loved the episode, but if there hadn't been all the stuff with The Master in it would it have been as enjoyable? I'm inclined to say no as the story was pretty flimsy all told. But as Dave (I think) said in the podcast, RTD can write dialogue. In this case it was all about the characters and that made it one of my favourite episodes since the series came back.
    Awesome, in the Biblical sense of the word.

    Bollocks...sir.
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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 08:19 AM EDT
    Heres a thought, what if all the humans had a FOB watch or were all clocked by some massive kamillion cloak and Utopia was actually Gallifrey............

    that would make a huge return of the time lords.

    Another thought that alien with Yana might be Romana if theres a watch near her.....

    i reckon the masters tardis is around there somewhere and thats how they might return, or if that alien was a time lord clocked as well would have a tardis too.


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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 08:37 AM EDT
    I think the last episode of Torchwood leads directly into Utopia. In Utopia, jack refers to the Battle of Canary Wharf, which would place his timeline after Doomsday. Also, I believe, in the very first episode of Torchwood, Jack says something about Torchwood 1 in London being destroyed, so that would place Torchwood Series 1 after Doomsday as well.

    We did hear the Tardis materializing, but that could have been because the Torchwood offices are right underneath where the Tardis materialized and there are some gaps, where the water runs down from the fountain. Also, the wind that rushed through the Torchwood office could have been caused by Jack leaving doors open in his rush to get to the Doctor.

    I also don't think that the Doctors hand had any effect on the Master regenerating. If it was that easy to initiate a regeneration, then the Doctor could have done it himself. Jack referred to the Doctor's hand as a Doctor Detector, and I think that is exactly why the Master took it.

    I also wouldn't think that the Watch would reset a Timelords regeneration cycle just by opeing it and restoring the Doctor or Master. If it did, the Doctor would now have 12 regenerations and I doubt that he does. I would think that it just restores him to what he was before his DNA was rewritten.

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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 10:08 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  President Nice]
    [Quote  by:  The Bachelor]
    Derek Jacobi plays the fifth incarnation of the Master whom the Doctor has come across on screen


    Actually that guy who played the Masters eyes or Eric Roberts played the 5th incarnation of The Master, depending on whether you count whoever it was in The Deadly Assassin and Geaffrey Beavers as two incarnations or one.
    Does that mean the whole "Master No Six - Mister Saxon" thing is a big red herring or a coincidence?
    Personally I loved the episode, but if there hadn't been all the stuff with The Master in it would it have been as enjoyable? I'm inclined to say no as the story was pretty flimsy all told. But as Dave (I think) said in the podcast, RTD can write dialogue. In this case it was all about the characters and that made it one of my favourite episodes since the series came back.
    Awesome, in the Biblical sense of the word.


    For the official word see: BBC | Doctor Who | Fact File | Utopia

    [Quote The Doctor has now encountered six versions of The Master. The actors who have played him are:


    Master No. One - Roger Delgado (1971-73)
    Master No. Two - Peter Pratt (1976) and Geoffrey Beevers (1981)
    Master No. Three - Anthony Ainley (1981-1989)
    Master No. Four - Eric Roberts (1996)
    Master No. Five - Sir Derek Jacobi (2007)
    Master No. Six - John Simm (2007)

    For completists, however, Gordon Tipple played 'The Old Master' in the 1996 TV Movie, appearing very briefly in the pre-titles sequence and without dialogue. It is possible that he also played Master No. Three.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Friday, June 22 2007 @ 10:23 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  indiana_brian] I think the last episode of Torchwood leads directly into Utopia. In Utopia, jack refers to the Battle of Canary Wharf, which would place his timeline after Doomsday. Also, I believe, in the very first episode of Torchwood, Jack says something about Torchwood 1 in London being destroyed, so that would place Torchwood Series 1 after Doomsday as well.

    We did hear the Tardis materializing, but that could have been because the Torchwood offices are right underneath where the Tardis materialized and there are some gaps, where the water runs down from the fountain. Also, the wind that rushed through the Torchwood office could have been caused by Jack leaving doors open in his rush to get to the Doctor.

    I also don't think that the Doctors hand had any effect on the Master regenerating. If it was that easy to initiate a regeneration, then the Doctor could have done it himself. Jack referred to the Doctor's hand as a Doctor Detector, and I think that is exactly why the Master took it.

    I also wouldn't think that the Watch would reset a Timelords regeneration cycle just by opeing it and restoring the Doctor or Master. If it did, the Doctor would now have 12 regenerations and I doubt that he does. I would think that it just restores him to what he was before his DNA was rewritten.


    As I noted earlier the hand was clearly seen in the hub as the TARDIS was heard.

    As to the watch it is possible that far too much reliance is being placed on this being the Doctor's watch. I think it likely that it may have been standard issue in any TARDIS. Therefore it is just as likely that the Master had his own watch which just looked identical. If you think about it......the watch was programmed for the Doctor, if it was going to turn a human into a Timelord and it was the Doctor's original watch, wouldn't there now be two Doctors and no Master?

    It is also possible that the hand reacted to the presence of any Timelord, we only had Jack's untested word that it would detect the Doctor.

    Interesting tidbit not found in wiki:

    I have a friend who lives in Wales and he tells me that a certain paving slab in Cardiff is always loose as if many have been testing it to see if there is a secret lift thereSmile

    Forget the shooty dog thing!
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     Saturday, June 23 2007 @ 12:17 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  BadWolf] Actually the problem with that scenario is that in the closing of EOD we clearly see the jar with the hand in the hub but in Utopia Jack has it in his bag


    Nope, this isn't a problem. The last time we see the hand , Jack is also in the room looking at it. When the scene cuts away to Gwen we never see the hand again in the hub. Therefore, he grabbed it and took it with him as he runs off to catch the doctor. You can argue that he didn't have a bag with him in that last shot but I believe that as the scene cuts away from Jack to Gwen, Jack grabs the hand, a bag to put it in and the coat he is wearing in the beginning of 'Utopia'. It is conceivable that there could have been a bag and coat lying next to the exit that he used to leave the hub.

    Glenn a.k.a. "The 11th Doctor"
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     Saturday, June 23 2007 @ 12:19 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  sgb1975]

    Not sure I buy how he could hear the TARDIS so far underground, but I think your explanation is definitely plausible and seems to fill in a couple of plot holes we throught existed. Good job on setting us straight...


    Well in the Torchwood episode where they were trapped in their own base - they managed to use the big central waterfall tower as a means of getting a mobile signal out - so maybe it could also act as a 'sounding board' amplifing the Tardis groans.......and PLEASE....no groans over that idea! Cool

    Cheers, daveac


    No, I wouldn't groan at that Dave, I think that is an excellent stretch of the imagination, which is what is needed to make EoD and Utopia work together.

    Glenn a.k.a. "The 11th Doctor"
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     Saturday, June 23 2007 @ 09:45 AM EDT
    Hey first post

    Ok so the Time Lords can sense eachother through a psychic link and maybe the Doctor assumed he could sense other Time Lords because any other survivors would leave their mind open trying to sense other survivors but the Master knowing about the Doctor would close off his mind so the Doctor couldn't sense him when he was on Earth. Or when the Master got back to Earth he had a room lined with lead,like the Doctor did in The Invasion of Time to keep the Vardans from reading his mind, and every time the hand goes off the Master just goes to that room and the Doctor can't sense him.

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     Saturday, June 23 2007 @ 10:05 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Darkman216] Hey first post

    Ok so the Time Lords can sense eachother through a psychic link and maybe the Doctor assumed he could sense other Time Lords because any other survivors would leave their mind open trying to sense other survivors but the Master knowing about the Doctor would close off his mind so the Doctor couldn't sense him when he was on Earth. Or when the Master got back to Earth he had a room lined with lead,like the Doctor did in The Invasion of Time to keep the Vardans from reading his mind, and every time the hand goes off the Master just goes to that room and the Doctor can't sense him.


    Welcome Darkman216 - I like the reference to 'The Invasion of Time' story and the lead room - but as I've suggested before - even just having the Doctor's hand with him might 'mask' his identity.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Sunday, June 24 2007 @ 07:19 PM EDT
    Anyone else hope that if the Utopia (part) of the storyline doesn't feature in Episode 13 - that they revisit the story on Series 4?

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 01:26 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  The Bachelor] Phew, I just read this this whole freaking thread to finally get caught up on what everyone's been saying. I was just reading about this particular episode on Wikipedia and I discovered this little nugget of info that I don't believe anyone else has mentioned here yet:

    Yana recalls that he was found as a child "on the coast of the Silver Devastation." The Silver Devastation was previously mentioned in the 2005 episode "The End of the World", in which the steward of Platform One introduces the Face of Boe as "our friend from the Silver Devastation."


    I wrote that bit on Wikipedia! ::is proud::

    I also mentioned it in the Live Podshock.

    tawm.net: read it. (please?)
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