The Gallifreyan Embassy
Home of the Doctor Who podcast DOCTOR WHO: PODSHOCK
Advertising | Donate | Feedback | New Website | Podshock | Shop | Forum | Media Gallery | Web Resources | Polls
 Gallifreyan Embassy 3.0  
  • Doctor Who: Podshock 305 - Interviews with Peter Howell and Ron Katz
  • Five Years of The Cultdom Collective Podcast!
  • The Official BBC Teaser Promo Video for the New 2014 Series [VIDEO]
  • How do you rate Doctor Who: The Claws of Axos? (5=Fantastic)
  • Doctor Who: Podshock 304 - 'The Claws of Axos' is Reviewed
  • New Doctor Who Series Launch Confirmed for August and Teaser Promo Video
  • How do you rate Doctor Who: The Invasion of Time? (5=Fantastic)
  • Doctor Who: Podshock 303 - 'The Invasion of Time' is Reviewed
  • Dozens of Doctor Who guests converge on Long Island this November!
  • Doctor Who: Podshock 302 - Terry Walsh Interviewed

  •  Topics  
    Home
    Doctor Who News (188/0)
    DW: Podshock (201/0)
    DW Reviews (33/0)
    Torchwood (15/0)
    Sarah Jane Adven... (13/0)
    General News (29/0)
    Embassy News (19/0)
    Editorials (5/0)
    Alien Tech (2/0)

     Extra! Extra!  

    Become a Podshock Supporting Subscriber


     Randomizer  
    Peter Davison at Who in the Cavern 3
    Peter Davison at Who in the Cavern 3
    Browse Album

     User Functions  
    :

    :


    Lost your password?

     Support Podshock  

    This site and our podcast are free to use and listen to respectively. Though there are costs involved in maintaining and producing both. If you like, please make a donation to help offset these costs and to help ensure that we can continue to bring you both. Thank you so much.

    You can make a one time donation of any amount you like using the above "Donate" button. If you rather make an annual recurring donation of $25 (that is less than 50 cents a week), use the "Subscribe" button below.

    Save big on toys & collectibles at Entertainment Earth! CLICK HERE for Doctor Who, Star Wars, Buffy, Ozzy, Spider-Man, & more!


     Events  
    There are no upcoming events

     Audible UK  

    Dr Who Audio Downloads from audible.co.uk


     DWNY  
    DWNY

     Ads by Google  

     Older Stories  
    Wednesday 06-May
  • In Russell/Moffat We Trust Shirts and More (1)

  • Tuesday 05-May
  • Join Us for Our Second Second Life Meet Up (3)

  • Friday 01-May
  • Doctor Who: Podshock - Episode 147 (0)

  • Wednesday 29-Apr
  • Sonic Newsdriver for the Week of the 27th of April 2009 (0)

  • Saturday 25-Apr
  • Who Party 14 Toronto Doctor Who Convention (0)
  • Doctor Who: Podshock - Episode 146 (1)

  • Thursday 23-Apr
  • Sonic Newsdriver and Hoo on Who for the Week of the 20 April 2009 (0)
  • Doctor Who: Podshock - Episode 145 (4)

  • Wednesday 15-Apr
  • Three New Producers Announced (0)

  • Saturday 11-Apr
  • Planet Of The Dead Canadian air date confirmed (0)

  • Tuesday 07-Apr
  • Doctor Who: Podshock Recognized as Best Podcast (1)
  • Sonic Newsdriver for the Week of the 5th of April 2009 (0)

  • Wednesday 01-Apr
  • Doctor Who: Podshock - Episode 144 (5)

  • Friday 20-Mar
  • Doctor Who: Podshock - Episode 143 (3)
  • Hitchhiker's Guide to British Sci-Fi - Episode 3 (1)

  •  Notice  

    Doctor Who and the TARDIS are owned and trademarked by the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). The Gallifreyan Embassy and the Doctor Who: Podshock podcast are not connected to the BBC in any way. No infringement is intended.



     

     
     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S3-Ep 12 'The Sound of Drums'
    Prev Topic Next Next Topic Printable Version
    S3-Ep 12 'The Sound of Drums' Views: 12449
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 04:20 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  sgb1975] No apologies necessary...in fact, I think your Spurs example brings to the forefront another parallel with Doctor Who. IMHO, last year's season 2 totally rocked, and this year it seems a bit more mediocre...I guess back-to-back winning seasons is asking a bit much Wink


    Ahh, touché sgb1975.

    Ok, now I don't want to turn this into a Sports forum for fear of being banned from this site, but I am over here LMAO all over the place from your response. If you other guys and gals out there don't get it, oh well.

    But back on a Doctor Who note, and I'm sure this will all be greatly discussed and debated later on some End of Season wrap-up thread, but I have continued to enjoy this series 3 as whole just as I did the previous 2. As has been stated by so many other's here on the forums before me, Everything since Human Nature has been a non-stop, break-neck thrill ride. Also, compared to the 2 previous series, I like how we weren't overexposed to Martha's family as we were Rose's. Also, we didn't get the series 3 subliminal theme (with Saxon) rammed down our throat every single episode. To this day, the more I think about it, I can't for the life of me understand how the Doctor kept encountering Torchwood references at every turn. Esp. in "Girl in the Fireplace" and "Impossible Planet/Satan Pit." It would be like the Doctor finding obscure UNIT references here, there, and everywhere during his off-world adventures, it's simply ludicrous. One would have almost expected the Torchwood references to continue into series 3 just b/c it still wouldn't make any sense.

    Of course this is just 1 man's opinion.

    Esco, "The Bachelor" has regenerated into Bullitt33!!!!
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 04:39 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]Jack still wears it because it seems to be a multi-function device as he often uses it in Torchwood ie. many of its functions still work.
    Interesting...I'll buy that. I hadn't noticed that was the same thing Jack uses in Torchwood. Since he called it by name, Vortex Manipulator, I assumed it was a single function device.

      Profile    PM    Email   
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 04:45 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  sgb1975]
    [Quote  by:  daveac]Jack still wears it because it seems to be a multi-function device as he often uses it in Torchwood ie. many of its functions still work.
    Interesting...I'll buy that. I hadn't noticed that was the same thing Jack uses in Torchwood. Since he called it by name, Vortex Manipulator, I assumed it was a single function device.


    Here's the evidence - from the first episode - a picture I've posted before:-



    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 05:10 PM EDT
    Also, I must add, I loved the cinematography of the scenes with the Doctor and Captain Jack striding around side-by-side in their smashing trench coats. Esp. the scene after they don the keys around their necks. Although I am normally not impressed with recent fads of disenchanted youths sporting trenchers, I love the look on our 2 leading men.

    Esco, "The Bachelor" has regenerated into Bullitt33!!!!
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 05:11 PM EDT
    Well, I've had occasion to watch this thing a little more, and I must say it does, for me, improve on repeat viewing.

    • I really like the "on the run" theme. It's somewhat amazing that RTD has taken the most omnipotent Doctor ever and turned him, overnight, into someone less connected than a Season 7 Jon Pertwee. I quite enjoy the Doctor divorced from the TARDIS, on the run from the government, forced to use his wits and the few bits and bobs he can cobble together.

    * The more I see John Simm, the more I think he (and RTD's writing of him) is pitch perfect. He is to Tennant what Delgado was Pertwee—a reflection.

    • The explanation of the Master's escape from TVM banishment is elegant in its simplicity. It wasn't what I expected, but it's downright epic.

    • The cliffhanger is actually damned good.

    • Overall, the story so far has a much grander feel than any season closer to date. It's not just the culmination of everything that's happened in this season, but, rather, the crossroads of almost every story that's happened since "Rose". Plus, just in terms of Earth invasion stories, somehow this story seems to make that a more palpable reality than "Army of Ghosts/Doomsday".

    • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration. Nor do I believe there wouldn't be some hidden Torchwood assets somewhere.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 05:27 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Well, I've had occasion to watch this thing a little more, and I must say it does, for me, improve on repeat viewing.



    Yes! I've now watched it three times and it does improve - there was sooooo much in the episode to take in.

    From different bits I've read - one possible outcome could be that the Master IS still helping the Timelords and that the 'my children' are the Children of the Timelords - that have been put into the care of the Master - and hidden in an alternate universe.

    The reasoning being - that although the Master wants to Rule and be a Dictator of sorts - he still has a loyalty to the Timelord race.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 06:24 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Well, I've had occasion to watch this thing a little more, and I must say it does, for me, improve on repeat viewing.

    • I really like the "on the run" theme.

    * The more I see John Simm, the more I think he (and RTD's writing of him) is pitch perfect. He is to Tennant what Delgado was Pertwee—a reflection.

    • The cliffhanger is actually damned good.

    • Overall, the story so far has a much grander feel than any season closer to date.

    • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration.


    Yes I very much conccur with all of these points:

    I too loved to see the Doctor on the run and "on the ropes" so to speak.

    The first time I saw the appearance of the Master after his regeneration in Utopia, as soon as it dawned on me who the actor playing him was, that was one of the first thoughts that occurred to me was that Simm is a very good "aniti-Tennant". I was soooo glad to not be in the know about the impending return of the Master, much less his on screen regeneration, much less who would play him. Actually this was the second time I was lucky b/c way back in "The Parting of the Ways," I wasn't privy to all the gossip of the time of Eccleston only doing 1 series so when all this Doctor dying mumbo jumbo started to become apparent in that episode I thought all the hint and suggestion was just one big red herring or ruse. I thought no way would he die in the first year. Wow was I somewhat appalled/pleasantly suprised. But, as usual, I digress, now back to the Master: I mean, how bizarre would it be to see David Tennant's Doctor interacting with Delgado's Master? Plus, prior to the regeneration it was as if the Master had a hand in his new chosen form and was influenced by the new appearnce of the Doctor. Perhaps (well maybe not Perhaps) a little envy after seeing the new, more boisterous, youthful incarnation of the doctor.

    And... Even though I know we've already seen Romana go through the selection process, this can lead to a whole new thread of speculation. If we a assume the Doctor had a "hand" in his prior incarnations perhaps he chose to come back as a more youthful Tennant to be more suited for the very young (freaking 19 yrs old I still don't believe it) Rose. Since he was supposedly in love or extra fond of her or whatever. Perhaps he was his 1st Doctor self b/c he wanted to posses the gravitas of a more "grandfatherly" figure??? Now why he chose to come back as Colin Baker, hmmm... That's a puzzler... I'm only kidding of course, I never hated the 6th Doctor as is often the trend.

    And about Jack, wouldn't he be aware of regeneration from his Torchwood connections? Didn't Torchwood at least know what the 10th Doctor looked like visually if not other Doctors? But if they could at least recognize the 10th Jack would surely know that wasn't his Doctor... Right?

    Again from Wiki', it must be like my favorite site or resource for everything. This is not a plug... Oh well, too late I guess Wink

    Esco, "The Bachelor" has regenerated into Bullitt33!!!!
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 06:24 PM EDT

    Well, I've refrained long enough from posting on this one, as I've watched it a few times now to be perfectly fair. That said...

    Did I enjoy this episode? Overall, yes.

    There were, however, problems here and there, but it was still fun and engaging overall. Just not quite what I was expecting, honestly. Sure, the speculation of a week's worth of "post-Utopia" bliss was not anywhere close to being correct, but that's ok. There were some nags like the trio's escape at the beginning, but I suppose we all saw that coming anyway. Blasted sonic screwdriver... Wink They had to advance the plot enough to keep things from dragging on, and though it all seemed a bit loopy by the end in terms of pacing, it certainly never dragged one bit.

    Still not sure about Simm yet. At times he's brilliant - sinister, restrained and perfectly cast - at others, just too over-the-top for my taste, at least based on the canon of the Master's character up until now. I appreciate RTD trying something new with character after all this time, but I'm still not entirely sure I like it. His reasoning (as per the Confidential) makes perfect sense, and yet I still don't know if it was the best decision (after all these years, anyway). Sure, the Classic Master was always a one-note character, but somehow, it always worked in a reliable and satisfying way. I can't fully see how giving the new Master Jim Carrey facial mugging and over-the-edge antics is supposed to make him a richer, more sinister character. To me, it doesn't quite equate making him "The Doctor's true equal." It's more like watching the Master turn into a wacky, cartoony version of what he used to be. Sure, I laughed out loud many times - I just wasn't sure that was the best thing, given the circumstances. You don't have to be so psychotically animated to prove you're a full-fledged, power-mad lunatic. lol

    I'm really waiting to see what happens next week to fully make a decision on "our new Master" overall, as I think having the Master lose control of his plans (in some undeniably forthcoming way) will reveal what else RTD has written him as, in terms of layers to the character, and how Simm will pull it off onscreen. Until then, the jury's still out for me. I really want to love him somehow, some way, but I still can't be sure just yet. I really think Jacobi had something all over again with his portrayal, if even for a mere 5 minutes or so - it just seemed so... right.

    Did love Simm's wearing of the cape at the airfield, though. Heh heh...

    The Gallifrey bits were beautiful - truly, I smiled at the costume consistency and general respect to the Classic Series that was shown here. A superb touch. Nice backstory as well, though it does seem to clash with some of the canon as previously established (i.e., as was mentioned on the Podshock for this episode - sorry, I forget who said it, but kudos nonetheless - Hartnell's Doctor didn't know who the Master was in "The Five Doctors," so what the heck!? HOW do they go back that far as friends in the Academy? Anyway...).

    Despite loving the conversation between the Doctor and the Master near the middle of the episode, am I alone in feeling that it comes off as somewhat limp and anticlimactic in that it all takes place through the use of a CELL PHONE!? Something face-to-face would've been much more appropriate - but then again, there is an intimacy to this scene that might've been impossible had the two of them been staring each other down the whole time, one step away from snarling and gnashing their teeth at one another. (Maybe that's been saved for next week - lol) A small gripe, nonetheless.

    Overall, this episode may be somewhat doomed post-Season to that recurring phenomenon of "middle child syndrome." It's got style and hooks galore to keep you transfixed while it's playing, but in the end, it's like the reversed sandwich - all the meat and fixings are on the outside ends instead, ala "Utopia" and (hopefully) "Last of the Timelords." Individually assessed as an episode, it's likely not the strongest segment, nor a case for "best of the season." We'll just have to see how it all ends, in terms of the success of an overall story arc for this batch. I do fear the aforementioned impending likelihood of a "reset button" ending, but I'd hope not, as that cheapens epic storytelling like no other reliably overused device. Fingers crossed against that one...

    Also - the Doctor being aged by the "laser screwdriver" was indeed a bit silly - the concept didn't bother me so much as the execution, along with David Tennant's "funky chicken" freakout (lol). I too thought of "Leisure Hive" in terms of aesthetics - it was plausible there. Just a toss on the story side, though, relative to how it was done to him.

    As for the Toclafane? I dunno - most of the theories that have already been surmised across the boards make sense to me, in one way or another - it's almost like "which one did RTD actually go with when he wrote this?" (lol) I can't really cast a vote there. Should be interesting to find out, though.

    And I REALLY hope that fireplace in the board room is NOT the Master's TARDIS - that would be the biggest WTF of the whole story arc, for darned sure. If it turns out to be the case, I better get the best explanation of the entire series as to the "how" - we already know the "why."

    All complaints aside, a fun episode, more or less - just not ideal for "golden standard Who" of recent weeks past. I honestly hope the finale doesn't turn out to be limp once it's all over with, as it's been the sure-fire slam dunk for each season the last two years prior. I'm hoping all the stops come out on Saturday! Big Grin

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
      Profile    PM    Email   
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 06:25 PM EDT
    OK- late in as usual. Guess I fly the wrong way back from the UK every week!

    I thought there was a lot in this episode, and I think we might find out more about this "president elect" thing either next week or in the next installment of Torchwood.

    I really enjoyed the story about the origin of the Master and the Doctor. I guess RTD just wanted to nail down that part of the canon, although I would not have minded very much if they were brothers...

    Anyone else note the line between Jack and Martha about unrequited love? "You too, huh?" So Martha's not the only one infatuated with the Doctor...

    Looking forward to the meaning of next week's The Last of the Timelords!

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
      Profile    PM    Email   
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 06:26 PM EDT
    Hi everyone this is my first post!

    I thought this episode was outstanding. As much as I prefer the other writers over RTD I thought this was his best work by far.

    John Simm was superb as the Master and he matches Tennant's Doctor perfectly I'm gutted I'm out of the country this weekend so I'll miss the last episode.

    And I can't stop tapping the beat of the drums

      Profile    PM    Email   
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 06:38 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  rocko]I really enjoyed the story about the origin of the Master and the Doctor. I guess RTD just wanted to nail down that part of the canon, although I would not have minded very much if they were brothers...
    Well, it's hardly a categorical denial. Tennant's delivery is quite studied. There's a half a beat as he comes up with a flip answer. One could just as easily assume that Martha got too near the truth and he deflected it—if one wanted to.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 06:49 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Well, I've had occasion to watch this thing a little more, and I must say it does, for me, improve on repeat viewing.

    • I really like the "on the run" theme. It's somewhat amazing that RTD has taken the most omnipotent Doctor ever and turned him, overnight, into someone less connected than a Season 7 Jon Pertwee. I quite enjoy the Doctor divorced from the TARDIS, on the run from the government, forced to use his wits and the few bits and bobs he can cobble together.

    * The more I see John Simm, the more I think he (and RTD's writing of him) is pitch perfect. He is to Tennant what Delgado was Pertwee—a reflection.

    • The explanation of the Master's escape from TVM banishment is elegant in its simplicity. It wasn't what I expected, but it's downright epic.

    • The cliffhanger is actually damned good.

    • Overall, the story so far has a much grander feel than any season closer to date. It's not just the culmination of everything that's happened in this season, but, rather, the crossroads of almost every story that's happened since "Rose". Plus, just in terms of Earth invasion stories, somehow this story seems to make that a more palpable reality than "Army of Ghosts/Doomsday".

    • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration. Nor do I believe there wouldn't be some hidden Torchwood assets somewhere.


    Nice thoughts, Darth. In continuation...

    • Agreed here. The Doctor without the TARDIS at all really puts him in a dark, unfamiliar place that, for him, is most uncomfortable - at least Pertwee had it in temporary exile - it just couldn't enable him to leave whenever he wanted, etc.

    • When you put it like this, the comparison almost works for me. I still just feel (so far, anyway) that Simm's Master is a tad too forced in terms of mirroring Tennant's exuberance and overall energy. If he pulled back only a tad, it would seal the deal for me. But again - maybe the full, well-rounded view of this new RTD/Simm Master has yet to be observed - next week has it all on the line there.

    • Again, agreed here. While I think we all prefer, hope and strive for the "tidy story consistency tied up with a bow," sometimes it's more heavy-handed to go that route. At least something was said in relevance to his prior fate, and that something does work for all intents and purposes.

    • It's ok - but it does seem rather ambitious for one remaining 45-minute episode to resolve, which in a way is both brilliantly frustrating and dauntingly bold. I still think the unfortunate reality of the "reset button" gimmick is an impending slap-in-the-face as to how it's all going to be rectified, though. And BELIEVE ME - I want to be wrong, there.

    • I would agree here in pertinent comparison to Eccleston's finale, but not last year's. I really dug "AOG/Doomsday," and thought it was a picture-perfect way to end that arc of the series with Rose, as well as one hell of a slam-bang finale that really kept me on the edge of my seat by the end. Next week's capper will have to jump through some serious hoops to equal that, after the overall weaker second installment of this story.

    • Good point here. It's not really clear, is it? I can only guess his tireless research on the Doctor in his hopes to find him again led him to such answers and the concepts they elaborate upon. Can't be anything more or less, considering his motivations as a character since "Torchwood."

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
      Profile    PM    Email   
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 07:01 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration. Nor do I believe there wouldn't be some hidden Torchwood assets somewhere.

    After about 150 years on Earth, he's bound to have seen a number of strange people emerging from phone boxes. Some of these would even be refered to as "the Doctor". Especially if he set up shop in Cardiff!

    According to The Christmas Invaision some UNIT personnel are aware of Torchwood. One can assume that Torchwood got the info on the Doctor from UNIT, either overtly or covertly. UNIT personnel, including a doctor, were on hand for one regeneration and dealt with the after effects of another, so they had enough experience with the topic to at least document it bureaucratically.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 07:27 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration. Nor do I believe there wouldn't be some hidden Torchwood assets somewhere.

    After about 150 years on Earth, he's bound to have seen a number of strange people emerging from phone boxes. Some of these would even be refered to as "the Doctor". Especially if he set up shop in Cardiff!

    According to The Christmas Invaision some UNIT personnel are aware of Torchwood. One can assume that Torchwood got the info on the Doctor from UNIT, either overtly or covertly. UNIT personnel, including a doctor, were on hand for one regeneration and dealt with the after effects of another, so they had enough experience with the topic to at least document it bureaucratically.


    In the Christams Invasion Prime Minister Harriet Jones "Yes, we know who you are." refers to a Code 9 (presumably a standing order) as being a Doctor sighting. Unit and the goverment are quite aware of the Doctor before the Christmas Invasion.

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     
     Monday, June 25 2007 @ 07:51 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  dazedandconfused]
    John Simm was superb as the Master and he matches Tennant's Doctor perfectly I'm gutted I'm out of the country this weekend so I'll miss the last episode.

    And I can't stop tapping the beat of the drums


    Welcome!

    I like John Simm but not sure about the way (he was asked) to play the role.

    I would have preferred more menace and less mad.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
      Profile    PM    Email    Website 
     Quote 
     

     
    Topic Legend:
    Normal Topic Normal Topic
    Locked Topic Locked Topic
    Sticky Topic Sticky Topic
    New Post New Post
    Sticky Topic W/ New Post Sticky Topic W/ New Post
    Locked Topic W/ New Post Locked Topic W/ New Post
    Subscribe to this topic Subscribe to this topic
    You may not post messages
    Full HTML is allowed
    Words are censored