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| S3-Ep 12 'The Sound of Drums' |
Views: 11666 |
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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 Monday, June 25 2007 @ 09:07 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: tarashnat] [Quote by: DarthSkeptical] • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration. Nor do I believe there wouldn't be some hidden Torchwood assets somewhere.
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After about 150 years on Earth, he's bound to have seen a number of strange people emerging from phone boxes. Some of these would even be refered to as "the Doctor". Especially if he set up shop in Cardiff!
According to The Christmas Invaision some UNIT personnel are aware of Torchwood. One can assume that Torchwood got the info on the Doctor from UNIT, either overtly or covertly. UNIT personnel, including a doctor, were on hand for one regeneration and dealt with the after effects of another, so they had enough experience with the topic to at least document it bureaucratically. |
| Yeah, very good points, as is the reference someone else gave to the infamous "Code Nine". Of course regeneration would've been in the Doctor's UNIT files, and therefore known to Jack through a Torchwood query. I mean, Torchwood's founded on its opposition to the Doctor, in part, so—know thy enemy, and all that. But I guess more directly I forgot that "Utopia" answers this in that Jack says that he spent the 150 years waiting for a "version of the Doctor" to synch up with him.
I guess the thing I don't understand, though, is how, specifically, he knows to avoid contact with the Ninth Doctor in preference for the Tenth. There are plenty of moments where the Ninth Doctor arrives on modern day Earth. How would Jack know to avoid one of these documented Ninth Doctor London landings in preference for the one Tenth Doctor landing that just happens to be chronologically "correct" for him?
Is it that the hand only responds to the Tenth Doctor? If so, that's massively contradicted by its bubbling near the Master; the hand seems a general Time Lord detector.
Still sorta confused . . . |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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BadWolf
Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 316
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| Monday, June 25 2007 @ 09:27 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Linquel]
You caught that, too? I freely admit that I am clueless when Britain holds its election, but if it isn't between November 7 and January 20 (2008? 2012?), then I'm really confused. |
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British Elections must be held (at least) every 5 years except for exceptional circumstances (war.)
During a five year period a Prime minister may call an election at any time they see fit.
Usually they will wait until the end of the 4th year and call an election sometime in the 5th; early if the polls are in their favour or right at the last minute if they are not.
Circumstances can also force an early election. If the opposition party calls for a "vote of confidence" and the government loses the Prime minister will usually decide to put the subject before the voter in the form of a "General Election." If the Government wins it can then retain power for another 5 year period claiming a mandate for its policies and if they lose the opposition will gain power for the next 5 years.
In exceptional circumstances the Queen may sack her government or refuse the winner of an election permission to form a Government.
I hope this clarifies the confusion.
Bob |
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Forget the shooty dog thing!
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merlin_mccarley
Registered: 07/30/06
Posts: 733
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| Monday, June 25 2007 @ 09:49 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: DarthSkeptical] [Quote by: tarashnat] [Quote by: DarthSkeptical] • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration. Nor do I believe there wouldn't be some hidden Torchwood assets somewhere.
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After about 150 years on Earth, he's bound to have seen a number of strange people emerging from phone boxes. Some of these would even be refered to as "the Doctor". Especially if he set up shop in Cardiff!
According to The Christmas Invaision some UNIT personnel are aware of Torchwood. One can assume that Torchwood got the info on the Doctor from UNIT, either overtly or covertly. UNIT personnel, including a doctor, were on hand for one regeneration and dealt with the after effects of another, so they had enough experience with the topic to at least document it bureaucratically. |
| Yeah, very good points, as is the reference someone else gave to the infamous "Code Nine". Of course regeneration would've been in the Doctor's UNIT files, and therefore known to Jack through a Torchwood query. I mean, Torchwood's founded on its opposition to the Doctor, in part, so—know thy enemy, and all that. But I guess more directly I forgot that "Utopia" answers this in that Jack says that he spent the 150 years waiting for a "version of the Doctor" to synch up with him.
I guess the thing I don't understand, though, is how, specifically, he knows to avoid contact with the Ninth Doctor in preference for the Tenth. There are plenty of moments where the Ninth Doctor arrives on modern day Earth. How would Jack know to avoid one of these documented Ninth Doctor London landings in preference for the one Tenth Doctor landing that just happens to be chronologically "correct" for him?
Is it that the hand only responds to the Tenth Doctor? If so, that's massively contradicted by its bubbling near the Master; the hand seems a general Time Lord detector.
Still sorta confused . . . |
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Ah, reduced to "Somebody said" in TalkShoe chat, and "someone else" in here -Sigh-
Oh well, the U.N.I.T./Goverment reports would record the appearnce of the Doctor and Rose in The Christmas Invasion and perhaps even elevate the code list to 10 if their knowledge is up to date enough. The Hand presumably fell into Jack's hands shortly afterwards. And of course without the hand he missed an oppurnity in 14' (two months) and 69' (a few weeks) when the Doc was "in sync" with him. As to how he would guess before the events in Christmas, well no idea there. And given the wibbly-wobbly nature of time who is to say he didn't meet a past or future Doctor during his (one way) exile.
Cheers,
Mike M. |
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I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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tarashnat
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 3062
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| Monday, June 25 2007 @ 10:22 PM EDT |
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| [Quote by: DarthSkeptical] I guess the thing I don't understand, though, is how, specifically, he knows to avoid contact with the Ninth Doctor in preference for the Tenth. There are plenty of moments where the Ninth Doctor arrives on modern day Earth. How would Jack know to avoid one of these documented Ninth Doctor London landings in preference for the one Tenth Doctor landing that just happens to be chronologically "correct" for him? |
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In Boomtown, The Ninth Doctor, Rose and Capt. Jack land in modern Cardiff to refuel at the rift. Jack could assume that the next TARDIS landing in Cardiff to refuel at the rift after this is the Doctor that corresponds closest with his timeline. Not an exact science but a good bet. Plus, the chap is resourceful, and a time agent. He has some basic knowledge about time. And with Torchwood access, he can probably get at any data stored in the UK (within reason). |
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Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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Linquel
Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 729
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| Monday, June 25 2007 @ 10:37 PM EDT |
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Some thoughts on the Master.
I've been listening to people talk about Simm's performance (good or bad) and talking about earlier versions of the Master. You can argue that the Roger Delgado Master didn't regenerate into the disfigured and deteriorating Master from Invasion of Time and Keeper of Traken. That his body just started to waste away. When he took over Tremas' body, the personality was still of the Delgado Master. So you can say Anthony Ainsly's performance was him doing Delgado, or you can say it was still the Delgado Master's personality and so he would still have that affinity for black clothes and goatees and the sinister laughter. Even when he took over Bruce in the TVM, it would still have been that last Master at heart. Derek Jacobi and John Simm can play the character any way they want now, without it needing any Delgado personality. Just a thought.
Also, with regard to how he survived the Eye of Harmony, it was actually very Master-like. How many times did we see the Master apparently die only to have him conveniently reappear in a later episode with little explanation as to how he survived (Planet of Fire...I'm looking at you). |
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I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Monday, June 25 2007 @ 11:17 PM EDT |
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| [Quote by: merlin_mccarley]Ah, reduced to "Somebody said" in TalkShoe chat, and "someone else" in here -Sigh- |
| Sorry, Mike  I usually put general pronouns in while I'm typing so as not to lose the flow of the sentence, and then go back later and put in the actual name of the person who made the point. I didn't in this case, and I do apologize.
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Monday, June 25 2007 @ 11:24 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Will-I-Am]
Despite loving the conversation between the Doctor and the Master near the middle of the episode, am I alone in feeling that it comes off as somewhat limp and anticlimactic in that it all takes place through the use of a CELL PHONE!? Something face-to-face would've been much more appropriate - but then again, there is an intimacy to this scene that might've been impossible had the two of them been staring each other down the whole time, one step away from snarling and gnashing their teeth at one another. (Maybe that's been saved for next week - lol) A small gripe, nonetheless. |
| | Ahhh, but it also hearkens back to "Terror of the Autons", in which the Third Doctor and Thirteenth Master's first meeting was by phone—and also showed the horrible uses to which a telecommunications service could be put. |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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Evalac
Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 8
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| Monday, June 25 2007 @ 11:42 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: DarthSkeptical] [Quote by: tarashnat] [Quote by: DarthSkeptical] • I still don't quite get how Jack knows about regeneration. Nor do I believe there wouldn't be some hidden Torchwood assets somewhere.
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After about 150 years on Earth, he's bound to have seen a number of strange people emerging from phone boxes. Some of these would even be refered to as "the Doctor". Especially if he set up shop in Cardiff!
According to The Christmas Invaision some UNIT personnel are aware of Torchwood. One can assume that Torchwood got the info on the Doctor from UNIT, either overtly or covertly. UNIT personnel, including a doctor, were on hand for one regeneration and dealt with the after effects of another, so they had enough experience with the topic to at least document it bureaucratically. |
| Yeah, very good points, as is the reference someone else gave to the infamous "Code Nine". Of course regeneration would've been in the Doctor's UNIT files, and therefore known to Jack through a Torchwood query. I mean, Torchwood's founded on its opposition to the Doctor, in part, so—know thy enemy, and all that. But I guess more directly I forgot that "Utopia" answers this in that Jack says that he spent the 150 years waiting for a "version of the Doctor" to synch up with him.
I guess the thing I don't understand, though, is how, specifically, he knows to avoid contact with the Ninth Doctor in preference for the Tenth. There are plenty of moments where the Ninth Doctor arrives on modern day Earth. How would Jack know to avoid one of these documented Ninth Doctor London landings in preference for the one Tenth Doctor landing that just happens to be chronologically "correct" for him?
Is it that the hand only responds to the Tenth Doctor? If so, that's massively contradicted by its bubbling near the Master; the hand seems a general Time Lord detector.
Still sorta confused . . . |
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One would guess that Jack is using the DNA of hand and the help of his "gadget" to locate the correct doctor..
It worked like a scanner in season 1. |
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 12:28 AM EDT |
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| I just thought: there ain't enough Retcon in Cardiff to make the world forget they've just seen a man come back to life in front of their eyes. Secrecy at Torchwood takes yet another hit. |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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merlin_mccarley
Registered: 07/30/06
Posts: 733
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| Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 12:48 AM EDT |
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| [Quote by: DarthSkeptical] I just thought: there ain't enough Retcon in Cardiff to make the world forget they've just seen a man come back to life in front of their eyes. Secrecy at Torchwood takes yet another hit. |
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Yes that TOP SECRET orginization that everybody knows of. In retrospect why was Jack worried about the Pizza delivery folk knowing the location? Expecting a Torchwood Press Office next series.
And today from the Torchwood Press Office we are told that sun spots caused the death of 1/10 of the Earth's population, and anyone who suspects otherwise is deliousional and needs immeadate phycheractic attention. Film at 11.
Cheers,
Mike M. |
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I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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Louis
Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 3075
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| Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 12:52 AM EDT |
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[Quote by: Linquel] Some thoughts on the Master.
I've been listening to people talk about Simm's performance (good or bad) and talking about earlier versions of the Master. You can argue that the Roger Delgado Master didn't regenerate into the disfigured and deteriorating Master from Invasion of Time and Keeper of Traken. That his body just started to waste away. When he took over Tremas' body, the personality was still of the Delgado Master. So you can say Anthony Ainsly's performance was him doing Delgado, or you can say it was still the Delgado Master's personality and so he would still have that affinity for black clothes and goatees and the sinister laughter... |
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Yep, I was making the same suggestion in the recent live podcast, albeit perhaps not as successful as you described it above.
It was always my belief (keep in my mind that my first introduction of the Master was that of the deteriorated Master and then Anthony Ainley's portrayal prior to the Roger Delgardo Master)... so it was always my belief that when we first see the Master in the series played by Roger Delgardo, he had already used up his regenerations. Although he may be a contemporary to the Doctor (age-wise), because of his maliciously dastardly ways, he used up his regeneration cycles faster than the Doctor. So as you said, when we see the hooded physical deteriorating Master... it was what was left of the Delgardo incarnation (and since Delgardo had passed away by this point, it had to be played by someone else in heavy makeup). His personality may not be exactly that of how Delgardo played the character, but you can see by the way he looks, he's been through a great deal. When he steals a new body... well, it's still him. He may have changed somewhat... and indeed he has, but essentially he is the same incarnation with Ainley playing him.
Cheers,
Louis |
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☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:03 AM EDT |
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| Well, we assume that the "Deadly Assassin/Traken" Master immediately follows on the Delgado Master. And I actually like the explanation given here that in fact there's only one regeneration in the classic series, just with different exteriors. However, I can't recall if there's anything which explicitly ties the "Deadly Assassin" Master to the "Frontier in Space" Master. Isn't it possible there's another regeneration between the two? Can't quite remember my details clearly on this point. |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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Liyster
Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 50
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| Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:05 AM EDT |
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Did any notice Martha's television set (which blew up) was made (or serviced) by "Magpie Electricals" from The Idiot's Lantern?
Here's a screencap (hope it doesn't stretch the forums Louis - feel free to edit if it does)
-Liyster |
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Louis
Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 3075
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| Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:07 AM EDT |
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| [Quote by: DarthSkeptical] Well, we assume that the "Deadly Assassin/Traken" Master immediately follows on the Delgado Master. And I actually like the explanation given here that in fact there's only one regeneration in the classic series, just with different exteriors. However, I can't recall if there's anything which explicitly ties the "Deadly Assassin" Master to the "Frontier in Space" Master. Isn't it possible there's another regeneration between the two? Can't quite remember my details clearly on this point. |
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Yes, you are quite right... it is all assumption on my part (and others that may have a similar take on it)... It is all open to interpretation and could be proven differently by perhaps a future story or flashback.
Cheers,
Louis
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☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:09 AM EDT |
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| Y'know, while you're still here and postin': what was the reason for the Master's body falling into disrepair? I totally forget . . . |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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