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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S3-Ep 12 'The Sound of Drums'
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    S3-Ep 12 'The Sound of Drums' Views: 12988
     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:10 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Liyster] Did any notice Martha's television set (which blew up) was made (or serviced) by "Magpie Electricals" from The Idiot's Lantern?

    Here's a screencap (hope it doesn't stretch the forums Louis - feel free to edit if it does)
    ...


    It was fine. No, I had not noticed that. Good catch. Wow.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:14 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Liyster] Did any notice Martha's television set (which blew up) was made (or serviced) by "Magpie Electricals" from The Idiot's Lantern?
    That's hilarious. Dumb, but hilarious. Magpie was killed, without apparently producing heir or wife, but his two-bit store in North London survived for 50 years? Sure, that makes sense. Gatiss, ya already got yer flashback in this episode. Why be reminded of your distinctly lesser contribution?

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 01:20 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Y'know, while you're still here and postin': what was the reason for the Master's body falling into disrepair? I totally forget . . .


    I am little hazy on it myself... but I don't believe it is detailed in The Deadly Assassin... at least not to any great extent. Just that Goth found him (the Master) near death on the planet Tersurus after using up all his regenerations. If anyone has more info, please feel free to remind us here.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 04:28 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Louis]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Y'know, while you're still here and postin': what was the reason for the Master's body falling into disrepair? I totally forget . . .


    I am little hazy on it myself... but I don't believe it is detailed in The Deadly Assassin... at least not to any great extent. Just that Goth found him (the Master) near death on the planet Tersurus after using up all his regenerations. If anyone has more info, please feel free to remind us here.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Going from memory that sounds about right, I don't think any further explanation was ever given.

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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 06:42 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Shayne_A]
    [Quote  by:  Louis]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Y'know, while you're still here and postin': what was the reason for the Master's body falling into disrepair? I totally forget . . .


    I am little hazy on it myself... but I don't believe it is detailed in The Deadly Assassin... at least not to any great extent. Just that Goth found him (the Master) near death on the planet Tersurus after using up all his regenerations. If anyone has more info, please feel free to remind us here.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Going from memory that sounds about right, I don't think any further explanation was ever given.


    Didn't one of the novels go into this? I seem to recall an Eighth Doctor Dalek story that had The Master travelling back to when the First Doctor left Susan behind, where he then attempted to kidnap her, but she defeats him by sabotaging his TARDIS while on the planet Tersurus. The explosion resulting from her self defense left him badly burned, and he's later found by Chancellor Goth after she leaves him for dead, stealing his TARDIS to escape.

    Forgive my memory if this is somewhat bogus - it's probably been like 7 years since I read the book - I know I've still got it somewhere, though. If I can find it, I'll post the title, etc. to confirm.

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 06:56 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    [Quote  by:  Will-I-Am]
    Despite loving the conversation between the Doctor and the Master near the middle of the episode, am I alone in feeling that it comes off as somewhat limp and anticlimactic in that it all takes place through the use of a CELL PHONE!? Something face-to-face would've been much more appropriate - but then again, there is an intimacy to this scene that might've been impossible had the two of them been staring each other down the whole time, one step away from snarling and gnashing their teeth at one another. (Maybe that's been saved for next week - lol) A small gripe, nonetheless.
    Ahhh, but it also hearkens back to "Terror of the Autons", in which the Third Doctor and Thirteenth Master's first meeting was by phone—and also showed the horrible uses to which a telecommunications service could be put.


    Indeed! Gosh, I had forgotten about this, Darth. I dug "Terror" out and watched it again just to compare the two moments - how right you are. Good "call" - bugger me - yes, that was bad. lol

    Upon re-watching "Drums," I actually caught the alluded "Logopolis" reference in the "Peoples of Earth" speech as well. This episode certainly does appear to be the most jam-packed one yet with references to the classic series. My liking of it truly is improving with each new viewing. It's almost like a repeat-viewing goldmine, in a sense.

    BTW, Liyster - that's a damn impressive catch on the Magpie reference - good golly... I likely could've watched the episode another 5 times and still have never caught that tidbit. Big Grin

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 07:50 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Liyster] Did any notice Martha's television set (which blew up) was made (or serviced) by "Magpie Electricals" from The Idiot's Lantern?

    Here's a screencap (hope it doesn't stretch the forums Louis - feel free to edit if it does)

    -Liyster


    That's a great catch. Wasn't there another "present-day" Magpie reference that someone posted a screen cap of? It may have been later in the 2006 series or in the 2007 series, I can't remember.

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 08:00 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Louis]
    [Quote  by:  Linquel] Some thoughts on the Master.

    I've been listening to people talk about Simm's performance (good or bad) and talking about earlier versions of the Master. You can argue that the Roger Delgado Master didn't regenerate into the disfigured and deteriorating Master from Invasion of Time and Keeper of Traken. That his body just started to waste away. When he took over Tremas' body, the personality was still of the Delgado Master. So you can say Anthony Ainsly's performance was him doing Delgado, or you can say it was still the Delgado Master's personality and so he would still have that affinity for black clothes and goatees and the sinister laughter...


    Yep, I was making the same suggestion in the recent live podcast, albeit perhaps not as successful as you described it above.

    It was always my belief (keep in my mind that my first introduction of the Master was that of the deteriorated Master and then Anthony Ainley's portrayal prior to the Roger Delgardo Master)... so it was always my belief that when we first see the Master in the series played by Roger Delgardo, he had already used up his regenerations. Although he may be a contemporary to the Doctor (age-wise), because of his maliciously dastardly ways, he used up his regeneration cycles faster than the Doctor. So as you said, when we see the hooded physical deteriorating Master... it was what was left of the Delgardo incarnation (and since Delgardo had passed away by this point, it had to be played by someone else in heavy makeup). His personality may not be exactly that of how Delgardo played the character, but you can see by the way he looks, he's been through a great deal. When he steals a new body... well, it's still him. He may have changed somewhat... and indeed he has, but essentially he is the same incarnation with Ainley playing him.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Yes, I had considered this angle as well. It makes sense based on the history of the Master, and the fact that Delgado was supposed to be the Thirteenth incarnation of the character. Ultimately, relative to the unsavory circumstances surrounding the survival of this incarnation over the years, it was never a tried-and-true regeneration in the classical sense that kept him going, since he had none left - it was theft of bodies - thusly, there was no need to really "change" the character. And if that observation isn't enough to truly pinpoint the lack of variation, we can all just point the finger at JNT - lol. Razz

    The unfortunate reality looking back on it all to a degree is that it may well have been a disservice to the character by keeping him so consistent for decades back in the day, creating a figurative "security blanket" of what to expect from the character. This is what initially left me (along with others who have yet to fully embrace Simm's portrayal) feeling a little at odds with the current direction of the character. He's familiar enough, yes, but then altogether new at the same time. RTD's Master is by far the most radical re-invention of a classic series villian yet, IMO.

    As previously mentioned - there is something oddly reliable and consistently satisfying about the one-note nature of the character in the classic series. It always worked for what was expected from the character, and in my estimation, it never disappointed. To me, Ainley's run was a great tribute to what Delgado started with the role, limitations or not. Even hammy Eric Roberts got it halfway right in his "one-off" go of it... lol

    Like Louis, I came in on 'ole "scabby Master," and that left a mark. He was genuinely creepy, unlike the general sinister nature of the Delgado/Ainley mirroring - this Master was desperate and dying, and ultimately, far more dangerous for a time as a result.

    Of all the villians that RTD has re-engineered for today's audience, the Master is the only one who drastically differs from what we've been used to in the past. You can't really mess the Daleks or the Autons up - and his spin on the Cybermen worked well as "a version" of the Cybermen, not necessarily "the version" of the Cybermen, so dismissing canon was permittable. The Master is a more delicate matter, as he is one singular character and his delivery and presence was always the same over the course of many, many Doctors.

    Now all that has changed. RTD was hungry to re-examine the Master at his core and really amp him up for today's New Who. And I do commend his efforts here. Not everything as it once was can work in today's ethical atmosphere of interacting characters and complex situations. It's been heckled that Tennant's Doctor would no doubt deal with the vintage Master in under 5 minutes, and oddly enough, I can totally concur with that observation. And that's where you figure out what works about the old, maintain it, and then add new layers to it, which I feel it what's being done with the new Master. It's just going to take some adjusting to, in my book, as it's truly unexplored territory for the character. Change can be a scary thing, even if it's good!

    Believe me - nothing has begun to intrigue me more than the possible advent that the Master does indeed possess a new cycle of regenerations, and that Simm will not be a constant fixed actor in the role looking ahead - now, the Master may also take damage from some wonderously epic storytelling and reimagine himself anew every so many seasons, just as the Doctor will have to continue in doing so. To have a revolving door of great, capable character actors hungry to take a stab at new Masters as well as new Doctors is damned exciting stuff indeed.

    As I've said, Simm is growing on me. With each repeat viewing of "Drums," he's honestly better and better. I could still do without the silly rubberface mugging here and there, along with the zipperlips stuff, but all in all, I do think he's got something with his delivery of RTD's writing. I really look forward to some beautifully maniacal stuff from him in the finale, where I'm hoping he will really let go and become somewhat scarier, opposed to sillier. And I think the story's inevitable conclusion will guarantee as much.

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 08:16 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Will-I-Am]
    [Quote  by:  Shayne_A]
    [Quote  by:  Louis]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Y'know, while you're still here and postin': what was the reason for the Master's body falling into disrepair? I totally forget . . .


    I am little hazy on it myself... but I don't believe it is detailed in The Deadly Assassin... at least not to any great extent. Just that Goth found him (the Master) near death on the planet Tersurus after using up all his regenerations. If anyone has more info, please feel free to remind us here.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Going from memory that sounds about right, I don't think any further explanation was ever given.


    Didn't one of the novels go into this? I seem to recall an Eighth Doctor Dalek story that had The Master travelling back to when the First Doctor left Susan behind, where he then attempted to kidnap her, but she defeats him by sabotaging his TARDIS while on the planet Tersurus. The explosion resulting from her self defense left him badly burned, and he's later found by Chancellor Goth after she leaves him for dead, stealing his TARDIS to escape.

    Forgive my memory if this is somewhat bogus - it's probably been like 7 years since I read the book - I know I've still got it somewhere, though. If I can find it, I'll post the title, etc. to confirm.


    Found it. It's in the Eighth Doctor novel "Legacy of the Daleks" by John Peel. Came out in '98.

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 09:07 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Linquel]
    That's a great catch. Wasn't there another "present-day" Magpie reference that someone posted a screen cap of? It may have been later in the 2006 series or in the 2007 series, I can't remember.


    Yes I'm pretty certain that there were a few Magpie television sets in the Torchwood Hub, though I'm not sure which episode they were shown in (my guess is on of the earlier ones).

    If any keen-eyed Torchwood watchers can remember which and post a screencap that'd be fantastic.

    Cheers,
    -Liyster.

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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 09:17 AM EDT
    Ah yes, the Wikipedia article List of Torchwood items notes that:

    The Hub contains three television sets from Magpie Electricals, seen in the Doctor Who episode "The Idiot's Lantern". Jack uses them as scanners for unusual signals using the source "Base Notes" (28 October - 3 November 2006) Radio Times, p. 10

    Has anyone got a copy of Radio Times or does this new info jog anyone's memory?

    Cheers,
    -Liyster.

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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 09:36 AM EDT
    Being a bit of a noob, my first ever Master was Eric Roberts, followed by Jacobi and Simm in "Utopia." After that, I went back and watched The Keeper of Traken, Logopolis, and Castrovalva, with Geoffrey Beevers and Anthony Ainley. Then, of course, Simm in "The Sound of Drums." So, I have never seen Delgado (if someone can recommend a good Delgado Master story, perhaps one available on DVD, that would be marvelous).

    But I enjoyed John Simm's performance fantastically! It really does make a lot of sense, based on how RTD has done regeneration so far. It seems that RTD is promoting the idea that what a Time Lord regenerates into is based at least in part on external factors. The cynical and dark character of the Ninth Doctor seems to be a direct reaction to the Time War, and the character of the jollier and exuberant Tenth Doctor seems to be a reaction to the effect Rose had on him.

    Along similar lines, Simm's Master seems to be a direct response to Tennant's doctor. Jacobi's Master even hints at this before changing. So the change in personality makes plot sense, not just because the core reason the Master was created was to be the ultimate equal to the Doctor, the "yin to his yang," as it were.

    That, and there's something immensely awesome about the stars of my two favorite shows being portrayed as mortal enemies.

    tawm.net: read it. (please?)
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 09:40 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Linquel] That's a great catch. Wasn't there another "present-day" Magpie reference that someone posted a screen cap of? It may have been later in the 2006 series or in the 2007 series, I can't remember.
    The speakers/microphone in the reception hall of "The Runaway Bride" were also supposedly Magpie products. But again, I ask, how the hell did the name Magpie survive if the heirless man did not? Especially considering he left the shop a financial shambles after selling tons of TVs for just a fiver?

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 09:46 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]But again, I ask, how the hell did the name Magpie survive if the heirless man did not? Especially considering he left the shop a financial shambles after selling tons of TVs for just a fiver?


    The Doctor would doubtless say something about Humans being the great survivors.

    Perhaps he had a brother or cousin.


    tawm.net: read it. (please?)
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     Tuesday, June 26 2007 @ 09:58 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    [Quote  by:  Linquel] That's a great catch. Wasn't there another "present-day" Magpie reference that someone posted a screen cap of? It may have been later in the 2006 series or in the 2007 series, I can't remember.
    The speakers/microphone in the reception hall of "The Runaway Bride" were also supposedly Magpie products. But again, I ask, how the hell did the name Magpie survive if the heirless man did not? Especially considering he left the shop a financial shambles after selling tons of TVs for just a fiver?


    Perhaps it is a completely different company/business which had some sort of emotional bond to the name or felt it had some sort of name recognition with the public and is using the name today.

    Similar to some company names or product names in use today such as Atari, Amiga, Pan Am, etc. that are being used today not by their originating company/business.

    Cheers,
    Louis

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