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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S3-Ep 13 'Last of the Time Lords'
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    S3-Ep 13 'Last of the Time Lords' Views: 15525
     Monday, July 02 2007 @ 10:57 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  LanaiaD] I'm still in shock and somewhat speechless. That was rubbish.


    Oh, you know I thought it was ace Big Grin. No more singing Voodoo Child and the Doctor came back...Whoooray! Wink

    "WOT?...WOT?" "WOT??????!!!!!" OUT!OUT!OUT!
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     Monday, July 02 2007 @ 11:05 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Dr. Hoo] ...

    Not specific comments, but the statements basically culminating with the idea (agreed by more than 1 reviewer) that the "power of words" solution was a satsuma or some kind of "magic" or religious thing. I find it quite funny that everyone is willing to believe that the Master, a time lord, can use the Arch Angel network to telepathically manipulate the people of earth into voting for him and putting him in power, and then into fearing him to the point of sitting huddled in apartments across the world but when the doctor does the exact same thing to bring hope to the world and weaken the Master's control it's "rubbish"?

    Now, the idea of it making the Doctor youthful and non gollumish, I'll give you, was a stretch.

    That's the part that I think is rubbish! I have no problem with the Doctor using the Archangel Network as the Master did... but the Master did not use physic powers or power of words to physically metamorph himself. To persuade people into thinking one way or another is one thing, to magically change and metamorph organic and non-organic matter is something else.

    [Quote  by:  Dr. Hoo] I don't think, however, that it was such a big stretch that it deserved to be thrashed the way the reviewers thrashed it.

    For me it did. As it took me right out of the story. Similar to the talking slab in Love & Monsters... it just crossed the line into the ridiculous. Whereas I was enjoying the episode fairly well, not as much as the previous episode, but still enjoying it... and then I am asked to be believe that everyone left alive on Earth simply by chanting "Doctor" could initiate a magical reaction in the Doctor that it would transform not only himself, but his clothes, and even the cage he was imprisoned in. Sorry, not in Doctor Who... Just can't buy it here. If I was watching Harry Potter or Bewitched or something else where magical powers are already established... sure. But this took me right out of the story. It annoyed me. Just as if the phone rings or you are interrupted by some other incident while you are enjoying something. This was an interruption in something that I was enjoying fairly well otherwise.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Monday, July 02 2007 @ 11:08 PM EDT
    Yeah, but Louis, don't you think that as a phone network, the Archangel network also had sonic properties which would admit of scientifically counteracting the Lazarus Laser? And besides, take a look at what the Doctor does to great celebration in E9. Most of that's downright magic, but people loved it. Not me, but people.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." JNT, 1986
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 12:14 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Louis]
    That's the part that I think is rubbish! I have no problem with the Doctor using the Archangel Network as the Master did... but the Master did not use physic powers or power of words to physically metamorph himself. To persuade people into thinking one way or another is one thing, to magically change and metamorph organic and non-organic matter is something else.


    First of all, Louis, the "power of words" that people keep bringing up has nothing to do with this episode at all. That's the Carrionites. This is thought, not words. This was the entire psychic energy of billions of human beings.

    The fact that the Master couldn't do the same was because he's would never think of it. He never thought of Archangel as anything other than a tool for keeping people down. And he would never think that an entire species of people could have such unity of purpose. The Doctor makes people better and the Master puts people beneath him. The significance of their titles was hinted at during "The Sound of Drums" and that's what's going on here.

    Also, remember, the Doctor was aged with Lazarus's machine. In the end of "The Lazarus Effect," we saw that Lazarus reverted back to his proper age when he died. So the effect reverses itself naturally. It's just not something that Lazarus or the Doctor can control. So all the Doctor really did when he rejuvenated himself was use the psychic energy to to induce the reversal voluntarily. And that sounds fine to me: it makes sense that a great amount of extra psychic energy would give the Doctor greater control over his own body.

    The levitating and stuff was rather silly, but it was no worse than Rose turning the Dalek fleet to dust and bringing Jack to life.

    tawm.net: read it. (please?)
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 06:30 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Tawm]

    Also, remember, the Doctor was aged with Lazarus's machine. In the end of "The Lazarus Effect," we saw that Lazarus reverted back to his proper age when he died. So the effect reverses itself naturally. It's just not something that Lazarus or the Doctor can control. So all the Doctor really did when he rejuvenated himself was use the psychic energy to to induce the reversal voluntarily.

    The levitating and stuff was rather silly, but it was no worse than Rose turning the Dalek fleet to dust and bringing Jack to life.


    Reversal of the 'The Lazarus Effect' works better than thinking of it as the reversal his ageing.

    ' the levitating and stuff was rather silly' - yes, I didn't like that part.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 08:43 AM EDT
    Louis,

    I appreciate and respect your comments, and now that I've finished listening to the podcast and you've clarified a bit I'm behind you on the 'un-aging" of the doctor. It was still passable for me, but I understand where you're coming from.

    Something Tawm mentioned that was brought up in SoD that I'm not sure anyone pointed out (if they did, I'm sorry) the Doctor chose his name because Doctors help people. Very interesting! If that had ever been explained before in the Classic series, I missed it.

    Check out HOO on WHO, my podcast devoted to the review of Classic series Doctor Who DVD's. http://www.hooonwho.com
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 08:50 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac] ' the levitating and stuff was rather silly' - yes, I didn't like that part.
    See, that's the part that actually makes the most sense to me. When a psychic-sensitive overloads on psychic energy, it's not too big a stretch to imagine that he might for 30 seconds experience advanced telekenetic powers.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." JNT, 1986
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 11:24 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    [Quote  by:  daveac] ' the levitating and stuff was rather silly' - yes, I didn't like that part.
    See, that's the part that actually makes the most sense to me. When a psychic-sensitive overloads on psychic energy, it's not too big a stretch to imagine that he might for 30 seconds experience advanced telekenetic powers.


    Moreover, it was not out-of-line with the rest of series 3. I actually have no trouble believing that the Archangel network somehow enhanced the Doctor's own psychic connections to all the humans on the planet, who then - by concentrating on him - allowed him to have super-psychic abilities for a few minutes. As was already pointed out, the Doctor's whole premise is empathy, whereas the Master's is domination and subjugation. And hence he is better at it! (Haven't listened yet to the podcast, so forgive me if I am repeating something already discussed.)

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 02:37 PM EDT
    I thought it was a really good finale. I was worried about the whole 'Super Anti Time Lord Gun' and I did think the shrunken Doctor was a bit naff at first but it did take the Doctor out of the story and made him look weak. I didn't have much of a problem with the psychic restoration of the Doctor as I thought it was in line with his character that with all that power all he wanted was to save the Earth and the Master.

    The Master was an excellent villian and outclassed the Daleks and Cybermen from the last two finales. His refusal to regenerate wounded the Doctor greatly probably more so than the loss of Rose. It must have been difficult to write him an 'escape clause' that can give us the possibilty of John Simm returning to the role and keep the role open for a new actor if needed. I'd hope they don't rush the return back, perhaps Lucy Saxon could show up next year and the Master in season five.

    Martha was outstanding and matches Ace for my favourite companion, to survive a year on her own on a conquered planet just shows the strength of her character and her leaving the Doctor provides even more anguish for the ever more lonely Time Lord.

    So now its the long wait until Christmas and then Torchwood in January Cry

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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 02:38 PM EDT

    Times Online | Articles of Faith | Is there some subversive Christian working behind the scenes at Dr Who?

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 02:47 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Dr. Hoo]
    Not specific comments, but the statements basically culminating with the idea (agreed by more than 1 reviewer) that the "power of words" solution was a satsuma or some kind of "magic" or religious thing.


    Will somebody help a clueless Yank out? What the heck does a Mandarin orange have to do with anything? Confused

    CI, who obviously needs to study up on her British English more...

    "There's room for one more..."
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 02:49 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  constantirritant]
    [Quote  by:  Dr. Hoo]
    Not specific comments, but the statements basically culminating with the idea (agreed by more than 1 reviewer) that the "power of words" solution was a satsuma or some kind of "magic" or religious thing.


    Will somebody help a clueless Yank out? What the heck does a Mandarin orange have to do with anything? Confused

    CI, who obviously needs to study up on her British English more...


    Just rewatch the end of The Christmas Invaision for all you need on the satsuma solution.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 05:11 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]

    Just rewatch the end of The Christmas Invaision for all you need on the satsuma solution.


    Or Ready, Steady, Cook (UK TV) Big Grin



    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Tuesday, July 03 2007 @ 05:36 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    Or Ready, Steady, Cook (UK TV) Big Grin
    Cheers, daveac


    [Warning! Tangent emerging...]

    We lowly colonials actually had a nice version called "Ready, Set, Cook!" on the Food Network in its early days of the mid-1990's. I miss it.

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Wednesday, July 04 2007 @ 01:24 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Louis]
    [Quote  by:  Dr. Hoo] ...

    Not specific comments, but the statements basically culminating with the idea (agreed by more than 1 reviewer) that the "power of words" solution was a satsuma or some kind of "magic" or religious thing. I find it quite funny that everyone is willing to believe that the Master, a time lord, can use the Arch Angel network to telepathically manipulate the people of earth into voting for him and putting him in power, and then into fearing him to the point of sitting huddled in apartments across the world but when the doctor does the exact same thing to bring hope to the world and weaken the Master's control it's "rubbish"?

    Now, the idea of it making the Doctor youthful and non gollumish, I'll give you, was a stretch.

    That's the part that I think is rubbish! I have no problem with the Doctor using the Archangel Network as the Master did... but the Master did not use physic powers or power of words to physically metamorph himself. To persuade people into thinking one way or another is one thing, to magically change and metamorph organic and non-organic matter is something else.

    [Quote  by:  Dr. Hoo] I don't think, however, that it was such a big stretch that it deserved to be thrashed the way the reviewers thrashed it.

    For me it did. As it took me right out of the story. Similar to the talking slab in Love & Monsters... it just crossed the line into the ridiculous. Whereas I was enjoying the episode fairly well, not as much as the previous episode, but still enjoying it... and then I am asked to be believe that everyone left alive on Earth simply by chanting "Doctor" could initiate a magical reaction in the Doctor that it would transform not only himself, but his clothes, and even the cage he was imprisoned in. Sorry, not in Doctor Who... Just can't buy it here. If I was watching Harry Potter or Bewitched or something else where magical powers are already established... sure. But this took me right out of the story. It annoyed me. Just as if the phone rings or you are interrupted by some other incident while you are enjoying something. This was an interruption in something that I was enjoying fairly well otherwise.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Hi Louis,

    I initially found the whole rejuvenation thing a bit jarring too, but a way I like to think of it - specifically in relation to him getting younger again - is that he IS a Timelord. One of the things they can do is regenerate. Now while it's possible the psychic network (with or whithout Dionne Warwick) somehow did reverse the sonic effects of the Lazarus screwdriver :-) , I tend to think it's more likely that it somehow triggered the Doctor's inherent regeneration ability. Not a full regeneration no, but enough to rejuvenate his existing body. I was looking at his hands as it was happening and the effect seemed in line with the new series regeneration effect to some extent - mind you - everything was glowing....

    One argument against what I've just hypothesised could be - well why didnt the psychic energy trigger a FULL regeneration? I guess the only answer to that one is - DT is still on for Series 4 :-)

    As to why the psychic network/semi-regeneration caused the cage to disintegrate - well who knows what possible effect the energy shooting out of a regenerating timelord could have? The 9th Doctor did insist Rose stand way back while he was regenerating, so maybe that energy is potentially dangerous. TARDISes are probably designed to deal with that energy so they dont get damaged, but a birdcage may not be so resilient :-)

    Although none of it explains why his clothes got bigger too....... But then sci-fi-dom is full of such little mysteries - for example why does the incredible hulk always seem to keep his trousers on no matter how many times he changes back and forth :-)

    On the point which many have made about why would the Master willingly kill himself - once the Flash Gordon bit came on, I just thought immediately that the Master had planned it all along as a get-out clause. I dont believe he intended for a second to actually kill himself - but making the Doctor believe that he HAD - now that's a trick worthy of the Master, and emphasises his cruelty even more - he KNEW how devastated the Docor would be by it, and I'm sure takes enormous pleasure in that.

    About Jack being the Face of Boe - I am pretty chuffed with myself since I did guess this - or at the very least it crossed my mind a few times after Utopia. I think it's great! I love it! I have a couple of questions about it though:

    1) The Doctor sensed immediately that Jack was an anomaly. He said it himself, it was gut instinct. So why then, did the Doctor not have the same feeling when in the presence of the Face of Boe? And, that being the case, he should have recognised the feeling when subsequently (in the Doctor's personal timeline) he came across Jack again.
    2) If Jack is Boe, then don't you think he would have come up with some better way to warn the Doctor than Y.A.N.A ?? Maybe he realised he had no choice, since he had already experienced those events when he was Jack 5 billion years earlier. (WOW! What a memory he mmust have! Actually maybe that's why he evolved into a huge head and the whole tank thing - where oh where to store 5 billion years of memories!!) And this brings up another thing - it's one hell of a coincidence that the Professor's name matches the initials You Are Not Alone??? And even if the Master chose that name himself - he didnt know that the Doctor would be the sole survivor of the Time War to start wondering "am I alone or not..."

    Boy I've kind of digressed a bit. In the sense of wibbly wobbly timey wimey - that one got away from me a bit :-)

    Final analytical comment I want to make is about thye whole Titanic thing. Not only did I think the TARDIS was supposed to be indestructible, but isnt the interior supposed to be a different dimension from the exterior? I always thought the interior of the TARDIS was like some kind of pocket universe, separate from the real universe with only the doors as a gateway/portal between. Anyway, since it's all made up stuff anyway, RTD make it however he likes I guess :-)

    As to my opinion on this episode. I enjoyed it a lot. It was one heck of a rollercoaster ride from start to finish. I loved every minute of it but, at the end, it left me feeling strangely empty. I think it's because, for me at least, this just didnt have the emotional impact of the Doctor regenerating, or Rose leaving. Martha is great, I like her a lot, Freema Agyeman does a brilliant job, but to be honest I just dont care about her character quite as much as I did Rose. It may be because I think she needed the Doctor much less than Rose did. Martha had more of a life and a career than Rose, so I think she was a far maturer person - and as such, not quite as needy, and I have faith that such a person would do fine without the Doctor. Plus, it was her own choice to leave - not a choice that Rose had. Also, the signs were there over the past couple of episodes certainly, so it was not so much of a surprise.

    The Master's "death" was fabulously acted by both David Tennant and John Simm, but the Master is not such a sympathetic character, so while yes, I felt sympathy for the Doctor, it was tainted with feeling no sorrow for the Master's death beyond that of what a fantastic character, and what a fantastic portrayal of him. As an evil genius, he got what evil geniuses deserve. (Although we know now that he didnt really :-) )

    Phew! That's me for now, you'll be glad to know :-)
    (I joined the podcast on Sunday BTW but mid-way through I got a phone call so had to drop. Oh well, them's the breaks :-) )

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