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rocko
Registered: 07/21/06
Posts: 370
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 Monday, May 12 2008 @ 09:18 PM EDT |
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Just quoting from Wikipedia
The exact mechanism that makes regeneration possible is not stated in the television series, but it is generally assumed in the spin-off media that the ability to regenerate may be linked to what is known as the "Rassilon Imprimatur" (named after the founder of Time Lord society), the symbiotic nuclei of a Time Lord that bonds him or her to a TARDIS, and allows his or her body to withstand the molecular stresses of time travel (The Two Doctors, 1985).
This would seem to imply that the ability to regenerate is not "natural", but something developed by Rassilon himself. |
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Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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Satai Styx
Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 178
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| Monday, May 12 2008 @ 09:24 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Linquel]
| [Quote by: Magpie]Then I don't know if anybody noticed it but there was a super-awkward cut when Donna & Martha were talking, right after Donna says she'll follow the doctor forever, they go in for a hug but the shot didn't look right, it seemed like they cut out some piece of dialogue and weren't able to patch it together properly so just kind of, stitched it up, sent it off, and hoped for the best. I should really watch again to make sure but initial reaction is... ugh, I feel embarrassed for them! |
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I noticed that edit, too, but assumed it was a flaw in the version of the show I acquired. Maybe someone else can confirm or deny if it was in the broadcast version.
| [Quote by: rocko] I noticed that bad cut, too. I wonder if that was in the original BBC airing, or maybe it had something to do with the specific "red-eye flight" I took to see it? (Good old "MM" airlines!) |
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I see we were on the same flight. 
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I took another airline first, and MM AIrline home. There was turbulance on that flight, because the first flight was fine. You did not miss any dialogue, just Martha and Donna stopping to face each other and then leaning in for the hug. |
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Ciotka Judi,
The Polish Blonde
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mad4plaid
Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 880
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| Monday, May 12 2008 @ 10:01 PM EDT |
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4/5 for me on the ep. Here are my two biggest problems with the episode, one mentioned previously and the other I haven't seen (though, coming into the discussion on page 6 does mean I might have missed something).
1) the Doctor picks up a gun and points it at someone's head. Yes, his speach didn't make any sense and was over the top, but really, my problem is that he used a gun as a weapon! Doesn't matter that he WOULD NOT EVER pull the trigger, he still used it in a manner that promoted terror in those around him - even in those that knew him (based on Martha and Donna's expressions). That should never have been done. Fisticuffs, sure, but NEVER pointing the gun. Doctor, you must now get off your moral high-horse, thank you.
2) All the soldiers were young, EXCEPT for the General, who obviously was WAY older than 7 days (unless the clones aged that qickly? nope, not buying that excuse). So he must have arrived with the original colonists. Therefore he knew what was going on and so was propogating genocide by his actions. Seriously, if he was a clone as well, then they should have made him, I don't know, 29? Definitely not late 50s/early 60s.
Oh, and someone asked why there were so many males and so few females? I assumed when the "extrapolated" the dna, they took into account the doctors, um, potential, um, ability to have X or Y chromosomes available (if you see what I'm trying to not say). So perhaps the rest of the clones only have the male chromosome available to them now, or just a really high and statistically improbably high male chromosome percentage amongst the colonists. Who knows about the Hath; fish have the sex organs on the inside, so some of them could have been female.
Oh, two last random thoughts:
Not upset to see Martha go. They didn't really do a multi-companion story in my opinion, as in none of the last three episodes were the three of them together for a long period of time.
And finally; please, PLEASE DON'T have a spin off for Jenny yet!! please don't dilute the brand so!!! |
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supremacy is relative
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jeffreysg
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 221
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| Monday, May 12 2008 @ 10:17 PM EDT |
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[Quote the Doctor picks up a gun and points it at someone's head. Yes, his speach didn't make any sense and was over the top, but really, my problem is that he used a gun as a weapon!
And finally; please, PLEASE DON'T have a spin off for Jenny yet!! please don't dilute the brand so!!! |
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I agree the Doctor's speech was over the top, however he was obviously iratated his 'daughter' was killed by the general. The Doctor just began to accept her, despite trying to shut her out after the pain he's feeling for the loss of his own family and race. So in that regard, I'll let that faux pas pass.
Totally agree about the spin-off bit. Please NO!
Torchwood and SJA are enough. |
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tarashnat
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 3062
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| Tuesday, May 13 2008 @ 12:16 AM EDT |
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There were a decent number of females amongst the extras. Just because they weren't wearing frocks (or eyelashes like Georgia), all you misogynists may have missed them.
If the General was over 7 days old, then he would probably have difficulty dealing with the sheer amount of death (number of generations replaced), that he would be a little unhinged.
And once again, they are not clones... the colonists are assembled as adults by the terraformer... based on the needs of the colony. The prototype for the general is most likely older.
The Doctor has picked up a gun and pointed it more than once in the classic series. Calling the shots |
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Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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backintheussr6
Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 41
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| Tuesday, May 13 2008 @ 02:50 AM EDT |
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[Quote by: tarashnat]
The Doctor has picked up a gun and pointed it more than once in the classic series. Calling the shots |
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That's a publicity still, Davison never uses that gun in Earthshock.
On The Doctor's Daughter I think that this story would have really have benefited from the old 4 part format as there was just too much going on to fit into 45 minutes. |
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Shayne_A
Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 79
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| Tuesday, May 13 2008 @ 03:09 AM EDT |
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[Quote by: backintheussr6] [Quote by: tarashnat]
The Doctor has picked up a gun and pointed it more than once in the classic series. Calling the shots |
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That's a publicity still, Davison never uses that gun in Earthshock.
On The Doctor's Daughter I think that this story would have really have benefited from the old 4 part format as there was just too much going on to fit into 45 minutes. |
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Well he picked up a gun and pointed it at Davros' head in Resurrection of the Daleks and I seem to remember him shooting the Cyber Controller in Attack of the Cyberman - the point is that the Doctor resorted to using guns as a last resort, not that he has never used them. |
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backintheussr6
Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 41
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| Tuesday, May 13 2008 @ 03:11 AM EDT |
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[Quote by: Shayne_A] [Quote by: backintheussr6] [Quote by: tarashnat]
The Doctor has picked up a gun and pointed it more than once in the classic series. Calling the shots |
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That's a publicity still, Davison never uses that gun in Earthshock.
On The Doctor's Daughter I think that this story would have really have benefited from the old 4 part format as there was just too much going on to fit into 45 minutes. |
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Well he picked up a gun and pointed it at Davros' head in Resurrection of the Daleks and I seem to remember him shooting the Cyber Controller in Attack of the Cyberman - the point is that the Doctor resorted to using guns as a last resort, not that he has never used them. |
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I know. I was just pointing out that the example given wasn't a good one seeing as it didn't happen within an actual episode. |
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old china
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 178
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| Tuesday, May 13 2008 @ 04:53 AM EDT |
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| [Quote by: rocko] This would seem to imply that the ability to regenerate is not "natural", but something developed by Rassilon himself. |
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I'll have to go back to check my Big Finish audios, but if memory serves I think it was in Zagreus that we see that Rassilon does indeed bring the power of regeneration to the Time Lords. Whether you take BF as canon is up to you.
I was pretty confused as to what exactly did happen to Jenny at the end. It's all very well us lot on a forum trying to puzzle it out (which is all good fun, of course) but I think they should have provided an explanation for Joe Public who won't follow it up and will just walk away in confusion. |
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If half the art of survival is running away, the other half is knowing when to keep a straight face.
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cybercolin
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 276
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| Tuesday, May 13 2008 @ 11:35 AM EDT |
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My review here.
And I must say, with a opening line of: By the time young, teenage Doctor Who fans had wiped away the stickiness from their television screens, thrown away those tissues and unlocked their bedroom doors, we had witnessed a momentous occasion in Doctor Who. I am on form! Does that mean I can get a sitcom on FOX now?
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Please check out my blog, as I attempt to watch and review EVERY Doctor Who episode! http://journeythroughtimeandspace.blogspot.com/
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daveac
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2636
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| Tuesday, May 13 2008 @ 12:44 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: cybercolin] My review here.
And I must say, with a opening line of |
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Could you edit that post a bit more please?
daveac |
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daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP,
cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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silvanthalas
Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 118
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| Wednesday, May 14 2008 @ 08:20 PM EDT |
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I thought the episode was rather underwhelming. I think it's the fault of the trailer though: it set up high expectations that were basically piddled away before the opening credits.
Ie, the whole "Doctor's daughter" ended up being a bit pointless, as the character of Jenny could have been anyone.
It did feel a lot like an episode of the classic series though, up to and including a companion putting themselves in unnecessary danger, requiring a sacrificial rescue, etc.
Overall though, the entire episode was far too predictable. And after reading over the previous posts on this episode, the story really does fall apart at the seams, doesn't it? |
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Thursday, May 15 2008 @ 02:15 AM EDT |
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[Quote by: mad4plaid] . . . my two biggest problems with the episode [include] . . .
1) the Doctor picks up a gun and points it at someone's head. Yes, his speach didn't make any sense and was over the top, but really, my problem is that he used a gun as a weapon! Doesn't matter that he WOULD NOT EVER pull the trigger, he still used it in a manner that promoted terror in those around him - even in those that knew him (based on Martha and Donna's expressions). That should never have been done. Fisticuffs, sure, but NEVER pointing the gun. Doctor, you must now get off your moral high-horse, thank you.
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| In the first place, that's rather the point of the episode. The Doctor doesn't have a completely blameless record when it comes to using violence. "The man who never would" is fiction. It's what he'd like to be. In the second, it's a valid tactic of the Doctor's, dating back at least to "Seeds of Doom".
Whilst the Doctor brandishes a pistol he's just aimed at Harrison Chase in order to effect his escape . . .
SARAH: You can't tackle them single-handed.
DOCTOR: Why not? I've got a pistol.
SARAH: But you'd never use it.
DOCTOR: True. But they don't know that, do they?
He then rushes off to enter a room, pistol-first, that he believes is inhabited by enemies
The same point is explored, of course, in "Parting of the Ways", substituting the far deadlier Delta Wave for a mere pistol. If you didn't have a problem with the Ninth Doctor's final actions, then you really can't have a problem with the Tenth Doctor's mere gun-wave here. Really, the same thing happens in "The Fires of Pompeii", too. To the Pyrovile, water is deadly. Now, granted, the quantities of water the pistol can put out are probably not deadly, but they're clearly painful.
[Quote
2) All the soldiers were young, EXCEPT for the General, who obviously was WAY older than 7 days (unless the clones aged that qickly? nope, not buying that excuse). So he must have arrived with the original colonists. Therefore he knew what was going on and so was propogating genocide by his actions. Seriously, if he was a clone as well, then they should have made him, I don't know, 29? Definitely not late 50s/early 60s.
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| Just to re-iterate what Taras said, they're not clones. They're replicants. Quite possible for there to be a man who looks 50, but actually to have been generated a few hours before.
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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mad4plaid
Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 880
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| Thursday, May 15 2008 @ 09:10 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: DarthSkeptical]Just to re-iterate what Taras said, they're not clones. They're replicants. Quite possible for there to be a man who looks 50, but actually to have been generated a few hours before.
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yes, yes, "clone" was the wrong word  . But how is "replicant" any different? Doesn't that just mean a copy of something/someone, and isn't that what a clone is? a copy?
Still, if these replicant's age so quickly I guess I would have just liked that explained in the show, it just seemd very strange to have this HUGE age gap between the soldiers and the general with no stated reason. |
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supremacy is relative
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tarashnat
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 3062
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| Thursday, May 15 2008 @ 10:07 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: mad4plaid] [Quote by: DarthSkeptical]Just to re-iterate what Taras said, they're not clones. They're replicants. Quite possible for there to be a man who looks 50, but actually to have been generated a few hours before.
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yes, yes, "clone" was the wrong word . But how is "replicant" any different? Doesn't that just mean a copy of something/someone, and isn't that what a clone is? a copy?
Still, if these replicant's age so quickly I guess I would have just liked that explained in the show, it just seemd very strange to have this HUGE age gap between the soldiers and the general with no stated reason. |
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A clone is not a copy. A clone is grown from DNA. It takes the same amount of time to grow as the original. Even if the DNA is exactly identical, various factors can lead to physical differences.
The colonists did not age quickly. They were built by the terraforming machine as adults and the majority of them perished in the intra-colonial conflict. Repeat—they did not age quickly. No where is it mentioned or implied that they aged. They are built and soon killed in the conflict.
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Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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