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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S4e9 Forest of the Dead [Spoilers]
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    S4e9 Forest of the Dead [Spoilers] Views: 4923
     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:40 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  cybercolin]And then there is the whole Donna plot. That world of hers just semmed pointless and proved what a numpty we all saw in the Runaway Bride, she is.
    The Doctor must be asleep, cause I've lost my automatic translation of foreign languages. What the hell is a numpty?
    [Quote 
    I can bet you, if RTD or anyone else had wrote this episode, the vast majorty of DW fans will be panning it. It reminds me when Helen Raynor wrote two AVERAGE (not bad!) episodes last year, her two episodes this year (in my view) have been the best this eeries. I don't think the word 'fickle' is enough to describe some DW 'fans'!
    Well, as someone who likewise thinks putting the Daleks in Manhattan was a Pretty Neat Idea, a key difference is that the central mystery of "Manhattan" wasn't explained nearly as well as that of "Library". In the end, we fully understand what was happening on the Library planet (where the people were going and what their disappearance's relation to the little girl was). It's still hard for me to grasp the central plan of the Broadway Daleks. (Not that I really mind; I generally don't get what the Daleks are up to, and at least this time I got a showtune.)

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:48 AM EDT

    numpty: (via Urban dictionary)

    Scottish usage:
    a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.

    b) A good humoured admonition, a term of endearment

    c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:52 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Okay. I'm confused. How can the Doctor enter what is apparently a significant relationship with someone when he's already seen her actually (if in some ways, not effectively) dying? I mean, it's one thing knowing intellectually that he's gonna outlast his companions with lesser lifespans. But when you've begun your relationship actually witnessing their death, how can you enter into it wholeheartedly? I'm not saying it's a "flaw" of this episode; I just don't understand how it would work.


    It is a relationship based on guilt and obligation, or just on hope... similar to how some people help terminally ill people. You know they are going to die, but you try to make what they have left of life more fulfilling...

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 12:57 AM EDT
    Hmmm...

    Like many episodes - rough with the smooth. Overall I think they did a good job tying up the loose ends from part one. However, too much was just too easily tied up.

    The cliffhanger - what a simple resolution. Then again, they did need a place to break the episode, so I can somewhat forgive that.

    The Vashta Narada - I like the idea of the books being made from a forest full of Vashta Narada. Was hoping something more was done with that, but oh well. I do find it a stretch that even though the referred to the people as their food source, they were willing to just back off for 24 hours and let everyone go. The just needed to rush forward and would have had the Doctor for dinner.

    Also, they did not show any indication of why they decided to stay in the suits. We see it now as a plot device to allow them to use the neural interface, but other than that, there seems to be no reason for them to walk around in the suit. I also wasn't too keen on a swarm all of a sudden having an ability to reason and make use of the interface. C'mon - it's a frickin swarm of mold.

    River Song - Like others have said, I would have preferred a definite confirmation of who she was. Tons of hints dropped, especially in the confidential. I'm not sure what I feel about the sacrifice. Interesting that the first time he meets her, she dies. However I would expect him to do a little more over that time to do something other than preserve her in a VR sim. Hope I wasn't the only one giggling at the line about "giving her the screwdriver."

    Sonic - good lord - can we please do away with the plot devices. I don't mind it being used to take something apart, or open the odd off door, but to increase power to lightbulbs, etc... just do a little better script writing. However, as long as it doesn't get too badly used, I like the psychic paper - to a degree. It does help speed things along.

    CAL - I really like the way they tied in the virtual world and the saved people. While it did make quite a departure from the tone of part one, they did quite a nice job with this. Catherine did a wonderful job of portraying Donna in the real world. And the Doctor Moon character was a good job as well. However, the quick change to "lets just self-destruct"...well, does everything in the universe need to blow itself up. More of the same old plot devices.

    Overall I liked the episode, but found the change between the tone of the two parts a little abrupt, and felt there were too many standard plot devices and escapes in it. At least there wasn't a planet of people chanting "Doctor"

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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:02 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Okay. I'm confused. How can the Doctor enter what is apparently a significant relationship with someone when he's already seen her actually (if in some ways, not effectively) dying? I mean, it's one thing knowing intellectually that he's gonna outlast his companions with lesser lifespans. But when you've begun your relationship actually witnessing their death, how can you enter into it wholeheartedly? I'm not saying it's a "flaw" of this episode; I just don't understand how it would work.


    Maybe in a weird way it just took the pressure off - which is a great aphrodisiac - and I figure it was the way she died, the fact she was willing to sacrifice herself - that made him trust her completely. (Though Martha, Donna and Rose were all willing to die!!) It is a bit odd though, cos normally even the "where is this relationship going?" questions scares men off so I would imagine that "we get really serious in your future!" would terrify a man-whorish time lord.

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:05 AM EDT
    Wow.

    Last week the Doctor's Daughter; this week the Doctor's Wife. Wow.

    I really like Alex Kingston, since she was on ER here in the US some time back.

    I only hope Moffatt's plans include bringing her in to play the companion to whoever it is who replaced Tennant next year.

    [Quote  by:  tarashnat]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Okay. I'm confused. How can the Doctor enter what is apparently a significant relationship with someone when he's already seen her actually (if in some ways, not effectively) dying? I mean, it's one thing knowing intellectually that he's gonna outlast his companions with lesser lifespans. But when you've begun your relationship actually witnessing their death, how can you enter into it wholeheartedly? I'm not saying it's a "flaw" of this episode; I just don't understand how it would work.


    It is a relationship based on guilt and obligation, or just on hope... similar to how some people help terminally ill people. You know they are going to die, but you try to make what they have left of life more fulfilling...


    I'm sure some of us are married. We know our spouse is going to die. Do we stay with them out of guilt? Or obligation? No. And we don't know when she's going to die any more than the Doctor knows when HIS wife is going to die. He has no idea how far into the future this relationship begins, or ends. Which makes it identical (on the end part anyway) to our marriages.

    The only main difference is, (though it's not that different from me) that he will know the woman when he meets her and knows he's going to be with her for some time. Like me, I knew right away too, when I met my wife, that she would be my wife. Even though we were very very young.

    He stays with her out of love, of course. For every single day they have together, not for what the end (however inevitable) might be.

    I'm finding myself anticipating the new Doctor and River Song.

    I think my problem with this episode, and several in this past season is that while it's ok for Donna to cry in SOME episodes, it's getting tiring to mainpulate her into situations in which she cries in EVERY episode.

    Sean.

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:07 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] It's still hard for me to grasp the central plan of the Broadway Daleks. (Not that I really mind; I generally don't get what the Daleks are up to, and at least this time I got a showtune.)


    My 9 year old cousin summed the Daleks up. "Why would they destroy planet earth? If they did, all the people would die, and then what's the point?"

    Nice to know my kid cousin doesn't have the sinister mind of a DalekSmile

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:20 AM EDT
    I've got to watch this again. Not because it was so breahtakingly brilliant, but because there were aspects of it I just didnt get.

    I liked it - if and when I can get my head around it's more intracate plotline, I may love it. But at the moment I think I've got more questions than answers.

    Nothing dies of old age on Skaro!
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:30 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter] ...while it's ok for Donna to cry in SOME episodes, it's getting tiring to mainpulate her into situations in which she cries in EVERY episode.

    Sean.


    I cry in every episode :/

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 03:22 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]
    I'm finding myself anticipating the new Doctor and River Song.
    It better not be a "new" Doctor. That'll retroactively give this story serious continuity problems. There has to be at least one (more) 10th/River story for River's recognition to make sense. And from the episode commentary, that's what seems to be coming, maybe as soon as 2009.

    Oddly, I'm not looking forward to this at all, though. I really don't like Alex Kingston. I'm sure I probably will be okay with the episodes once they air, but I hated her on ER to the extent that I went from a weekly viewer to totally cold-turkey within a matter of weeks after her first appearance. She just seems like the least worthy British actor to be his most significant other. I was less impressed by news of her casting than even news of Kylie's, and that's saying summat.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 04:46 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]
    I'm finding myself anticipating the new Doctor and River Song.
    It better not be a "new" Doctor. That'll retroactively give this story serious continuity problems. There has to be at least one (more) 10th/River story for River's recognition to make sense. And from the episode commentary, that's what seems to be coming, maybe as soon as 2009.

    Oddly, I'm not looking forward to this at all, though. I really don't like Alex Kingston. I'm sure I probably will be okay with the episodes once they air, but I hated her on ER to the extent that I went from a weekly viewer to totally cold-turkey within a matter of weeks after her first appearance. She just seems like the least worthy British actor to be his most significant other. I was less impressed by news of her casting than even news of Kylie's, and that's saying summat.


    First, no, there doesn't need to be another one. If the next one's older, it all fits. She would have seen him regenerate, as she mentioned regeneration, so it could easily have been his regeneration into whatever Doctor she fell in love with.

    Lots of people also hated the thought of Catherine Tate being his companion. I can't think of a better companion than Alex Kingston, whatever your personal gripes with her are, perhaps her harder-than-most-would-like character on ER turned some people off, who knows, but to me she's lovely, and the strength of her performance in this pair of episodes proves beyond a doubt she can not only carry the role of a companion, but THE companion, perhaps the one who mothers Susan's mother for all we know, the way time works... but that she can probably carry her own spinoff show if that ever was a possibility.

    Sean.

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 04:58 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Okay. I'm confused. How can the Doctor enter what is apparently a significant relationship with someone when he's already seen her actually (if in some ways, not effectively) dying? I mean, it's one thing knowing intellectually that he's gonna outlast his companions with lesser lifespans. But when you've begun your relationship actually witnessing their death, how can you enter into it wholeheartedly? I'm not saying it's a "flaw" of this episode; I just don't understand how it would work.


    We don't know what the Doctor will go through before he meets River Song properly. He could have had an experience that so depresses or inspires him that he figures - "it's worth it". He might have the pain of her loss in the future, but he has her for now.

    Plus - the Doctor is an alien. He has different values and customs from us. Mostly recent episodes has merely shown that by him acting as a jerk on occasion, but there are some philosophical differences, and we haven't seen all of them yet.

    I bet River isn't human.

    Time will tell. It always does, except when it has Laryngitis.
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 05:19 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  BenjaminElliott] I bet River isn't human.

    She could be an android... she's dated them... Wink Twisted Evil and they were rubbish!

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 06:10 PM EDT
    Briliant.


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     Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 06:11 PM EDT
    No offense but it appears to me that many who didn't like this episode was due to things that happened you didn't want to happen. Not what actually happened...

    Ya know pseudo talking slabs and "Scooby Doo" monsters etc.

    I for one loved it and it was Moff's story philosophies.

    Ie "Everybody lives" and when River reiterated it I choked up. Beautiful!

    And boy was I wrong about her and Lux and Doctor Moon.

    Gladly so.

    -cs™

    http://twitter.com/Smittmaestro
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