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actorguy
Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 207
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 Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 06:12 PM EDT |
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| [Quote by: seanhuxter] First, no, there doesn't need to be another one. If the next one's older, it all fits. She would have seen him regenerate, as she mentioned regeneration, so it could easily have been his regeneration into whatever Doctor she fell in love with. |
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But doesn't she need to be with Doc 10 for a while? Even if she's seen him regenerate and spent more time with him as Doc 11? It's Doc 9 that she's asking "Have we done this yet? or this? or this?"
OR is it even possible that she's been with Doc 11 because if she was with 11 she would be even more surprised to see him as 10 and not 11 since in her current timeline 10 is gone?
OR OR Isn't there the possibility that he now won't meet her at all because she's come back and died in this timeline? Effectively wiping her from existence. Doc 9 said something to Rose about this in The Unquiet Dead?
Oh, all this theorizing is giving me a headache. Ouch
Pat |
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"Don't play as if you've swallowed the metronome!"
-- Nadia Boulanger
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cybercolin
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 276
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 07:23 PM EDT |
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[Quote I'll have a pint of whatever you lot are on! I thought the story fell well short of Steven Moffatt's eariler works. But to be fair that standard is almost impossible to keep up.
But still, I was rather disapointed that the Doctor's name is now a sticking point. Previously The Doctor had just glossed over it and his only alias was John Smith (and that has already been overused in the new series)!
And then there is the whole Donna plot. That world of hers just semmed pointless and proved what a numpty we all saw in the Runaway Bride, she is. Then there is this total under use of Steve Pemberton. A brilliant witer/actor reduced to saying a few lines that didn't suit him, much like John Hurt in the new Indy movie.
I can bet you, if RTD or anyone else had wrote this episode, the vast majorty of DW fans will be panning it. It reminds me when Helen Raynor wrote two AVERAGE (not bad!) episodes last year, her two episodes this year (in my view) have been the best this eeries. I don't think the word 'fickle' is enough to describe some DW 'fans'!
But I did love the final bit with River but The Doctor clicking his fingers to open the TARDIS? Please! |
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Okay, I admit that was a tiny bit harsh. I was a little bit tired and had one too many ginger beers! I watched it again and I loved it! Although the Doctor's name bit and the clicking fingers still grates me! my 'not harsh' review |
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Please check out my blog, as I attempt to watch and review EVERY Doctor Who episode! http://journeythroughtimeandspace.blogspot.com/
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rocko
Registered: 07/21/06
Posts: 370
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 08:22 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: actorguy] | [Quote by: seanhuxter] First, no, there doesn't need to be another one. If the next one's older, it all fits. She would have seen him regenerate, as she mentioned regeneration, so it could easily have been his regeneration into whatever Doctor she fell in love with. |
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But doesn't she need to be with Doc 10 for a while? Even if she's seen him regenerate and spent more time with him as Doc 11? It's Doc 9 that she's asking "Have we done this yet? or this? or this?"
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Seems to me that if she was never with the 10th Doctor, then I don't think she would have asked whether or not he'd been to certain places. (Or maybe she's just going by what is written near the beginning of the diary and not from personal experience?) |
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Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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mad4plaid
Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 880
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 08:43 PM EDT |
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Well, I did like the two episodes together. Very nice - maybe 4.5 out of 5.
I liked River Song, but once we got to the point of her whispering in the Doctor's ear, I really started thinking back to the first episode, wondering why she had to introduce herself to the Doctor? Was this like something the two of them did? Play games like they didn't really know each other?
What the heck happened to Pemberton at the end? He told us that CAL was family and then did we ever see him again?
Who were the three kids that River Song had at the end? Joshua and Ella (ellia?) - the fake kids everyone had, and then who? CAL? I just couldn't be sure?
So, does Donna not really know just how old the Doctor is? Why does she really question why River doesn't know who she is? It stands to reason that he'll outlive everyone, so why does this surprise her? Or, wait... Are they killing her off at the end of the series? Maybe she'll find her 51st century man (I think this ep was in that century) and live happily ever after.... doubtful. |
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supremacy is relative
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daveac
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2636
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:09 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: mad4plaid]
Who were the three kids that River Song had at the end? Joshua and Ella (ellia?) - the fake kids everyone had, and then who? CAL? I just couldn't be sure?
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I took it to be Donnas particular 'two children' plus CAL.
Cheers, daveac
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daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP,
cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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Fairport
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 183
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:12 PM EDT |
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Somebody help me and please forgive me if this question has already been covered...
When River Song first talks to the Doctor in Episode 8, I thought she was assuming that this Doctor was in a future "regenerative" form until she noticed how young his eyes looked. Did anybody else get that impression? I didn't think she recognized him physically, so much as recognized his "presence" and Doctor-like demeanor.
By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, but I'll review it after a second viewing. |
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daveac
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2636
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:17 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Fairport] Somebody help me and please forgive me if this question has already been covered...
When River Song first talks to the Doctor in Episode 8, I thought she was assuming that this Doctor was in a future "regenerative" form until she noticed how young his eyes looked. Did anybody else get that impression? I didn't think she recognized him physically, so much as recognized his "presence" and Doctor-like demeanor.
By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, but I'll review it after a second viewing. |
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Well she wasn't 'surprised' by his looks - and in Episode 9 she only says he had a different hair-cut and suit - not that he was a 'changed' man.
Cheers, daveac
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daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP,
cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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Fairport
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 183
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:28 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: daveac] [Quote by: Fairport] Somebody help me and please forgive me if this question has already been covered...
When River Song first talks to the Doctor in Episode 8, I thought she was assuming that this Doctor was in a future "regenerative" form until she noticed how young his eyes looked. Did anybody else get that impression? I didn't think she recognized him physically, so much as recognized his "presence" and Doctor-like demeanor.
By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, but I'll review it after a second viewing. |
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Well she wasn't 'surprised' by his looks - and in Episode 9 she only says he had a different hair-cut and suit - not that he was a 'changed' man.
Cheers, daveac
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But she had earlier said that this Doctor was not "her Doctor". I thought she was speaking of a later regeneration, thus "her Doctor" got a different hair cut and suit, not the 10th Doctor. You could be completely right though, Dave. I need to see these episodes again. |
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daveac
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2636
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:33 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Fairport]
But she had earlier said that this Doctor was not "her Doctor". I thought she was speaking of a later regeneration, thus "her Doctor" got a different hair cut and suit, not the 10th Doctor. You could be completely right though, Dave. I need to see these episodes again. |
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They have probably left is unclear on purpose 
So they have options.
Cheers, daveac
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daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP,
cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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odessasteps
Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 27
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:38 PM EDT |
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I only just watched both parts tonight.
Don't think I've seen this mentioned, but did the creepy Space Suit Skeletons remind anyone of that similarly-costumed old Scooby Doo Villain, The Spooky Space Kook?
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Fairport
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 183
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 09:57 PM EDT |
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| Alright, I have a few more silly and rambling questions on my mind just before I watch this episode a second time. River Song is now living a matrix-like life inside the hard drive? Is she stuck there for eternity? If so, shouldn't she have been given the choice between a life inside the computer and death? |
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doogie448
Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 43
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 11:26 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Fairport] Somebody help me and please forgive me if this question has already been covered...
When River Song first talks to the Doctor in Episode 8, I thought she was assuming that this Doctor was in a future "regenerative" form until she noticed how young his eyes looked. Did anybody else get that impression? I didn't think she recognized him physically, so much as recognized his "presence" and Doctor-like demeanor.
By the way, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, but I'll review it after a second viewing. |
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Sarah Jane said the same thing about the eyes in School Reunion. Maybe that's how you recognize him after regenerations. |
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Linquel
Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 729
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| Sunday, June 08 2008 @ 11:40 PM EDT |
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Just finished watching the episode and confidential. I haven't had time to read through the thread yet, but I'll ditto the first post. Wow. Just wow.
I thought this was a great two parter, possibly the best (but I'd have to do a head-to-head viewing with Empty Child/Doctor Dances to be sure...who wrote that again? Oh yeah.) 5 out of 5, from me. It's my favorite of the series, but my wife likes Pompei better. I'll read through the thread tomorrow and try to give a more detailed post. I have to try going to bed, but it's hot and humid in Chicago so that may be difficult without putting the A/C on.
I definitely look forward to the Moffet era. |
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I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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silvanthalas
Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 118
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| Monday, June 09 2008 @ 01:06 AM EDT |
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I'll just repeat my thoughts from elsewhere:
At the end of this one, I really felt that this would've been a great season finale.
I thought the 1st party was a bit uneven, but this episode just hit everything spot on without being over the top and all that.
I like how Moffat presented the time travel conundrum of meeting somebody that knows you in your future. I actually hope they bring Kingston back to delve into this more in the future.
I also get the impression that Song only knows the Doctor from this regeneration, not future ones, and she's simply talking about him as she will see him in the Doctor's future, when he's aged some more. |
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Mohan
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 195
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| Monday, June 09 2008 @ 06:10 AM EDT |
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I did like these two episodes, but I am not going to try and speculate on what regeneration the doctor was (or will be) and who River Song is to him. It's all left vague, with hints, on purpose. That's the whole point of "spoilers" being talked about so often. Moffet needs to leave room for the show to grow and he'll be able to fill in those gaps (or not) when the time comes. It's an interesting bit of writing and something that the TV show "Lost" has been experimenting with this season. On "Lost" (for those of you who don't watch it), we saw glimpses of the future and got to see the characters interacting after the present time--then you'd be brought back to the present.
It was a rather effective way to tell the story. Now I know that these two episodes didn't go down that path exactly, but it was interesting enough to be enjoyable. However, there's two times this season that I thought we had some powerful deaths and everything was made fine at the end. That's a bit odd. We have the Doctor's daughter floating around the universe and now River still alive. I'm not sure I liked that. |
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