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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S4E13 Journey's End [SPOILERS]
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    S4E13 Journey's End [SPOILERS] Views: 9699
     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 12:08 AM EDT
    Because I was away the last two weekends, I postponed watching the last three episodes until today so I could watch all three together. Being away made it easy for me to avoid reading boards and getting any other spoilers apart from the few I knew about before the three were broadcast. Tonight I watched all three together and wow, I mean wow. It was thrilling and I am still at a loss for words.

    It is going to be a long wait until Christmas now and boy am I looking forward to that.

    Admiral Kristine Kochanski G.A.B. Saffron, Moonstone, Burnt Orange Team Leader http://www.gabtraders.com "O brave new world That has such people in't"
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 06:07 AM EDT
    Did anyone else think Donnas fate was unecessarily cruel? She had changed, grown and experienced so much during her time with the Doctor - to have all that taken from her was worse than being killed in my view.

    Also, the dual Doctors didn't do it for me or the clumsy fobbing Rose off with a "clone".

    And the episode didn't need half it's supporting cast - Torchwood did nothing and neither did Jackie.

    That said, I still enjoyed most of it. Julian Bleach is a great Davros. He's almost got the voice for it before they even use the ring modulator! The German Daleks were great and I loved the shot of them flying through the forest at night time. Martha and Jack were cool too, as was Sarah Jane.

    One of the highlighs for me was the six faithful companions all flying the Tardis as it was designed to be flown! A great scene.

    If half the art of survival is running away, the other half is knowing when to keep a straight face.
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 06:38 AM EDT
    is it better to Forget who you are or die?


    Guest Host on the WHOCAST
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 08:14 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  spoonmerlin]
    I would like for awhile the Daleks to be gone. I was also disapointed to see we are getting cybermen for christmas. I would like them to try and come up with a new powerful villian that wasn't done over and over already at least for awhile. How about something that isn't just a one off bad guy.


    I have very mixed feelings about this. At least they are returning in a one-off instead of the reoccurring villain next go round.

    However I was watching very carefully and was disappointed that they had that C on their chest from the Cybus corporation.

    It could either be some that escaped the rift in doomsday, some crossover from the rift. It could also be a Cybus corp. in our world, or these are our friends from Mondas.

    I don't mind the updated look of them - they look a lot more impressive than the sock puppets of long ago, but I do have a problem with the C on the chest. I'd also prefer if they are from our universe for them to look and act different than the ones from the other universe. Slim chances for two cybermen from two planets in two universes to look and act the same, especially given the radically different origins.

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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 09:55 AM EDT
    4/5
    Phew !! everything but the kitchen sink. A big load of wonderful, exciting, entertaining, nonsense. Only loses a point for the cheesy TARDIS towing the earth scene.

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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 10:33 AM EDT
    Oh where to begin. I'll start by saying that it was entertaining and did kept me hooked, but there was no true payoff and looking back at it as a whole it didn't blow me away:

    - Sad to see Torchwood really a non-factor in the finale. Would've been nice to see them a little bit more, given the extended run time for the episode. Although the Gwen/Gwyneth reference was a nice touch...

    - But let me get this straight. Tosh's Time-Lock technology kicks in, saving Gwen and Ianto from the Dalek. They say something to the effect of "Now we've got to wait for Jack to get us out." Ummm...ok...but what if Jack was already with you in the Torchwood Hub and now you're stuck there forever? Did I miss something here?

    - I'm still upset that we didn't get a quality reunion with Jack and Rose. Even when she saw him alive after he was gunned down by the Daleks on the Crucible, nobody ever explained to her, "oh yeah, remember when you looked into the TARDIS and destroyed every Dalek a few years ago? Well you also pretty much made Jack immortal and now he can't die." I would've liked to have seen Jack really give it to her (verbally that is), about how ticked he's been. side note: while typing this paragraph, I initially wrote "made Jack immoral" - forgot the T...Freudian slip? Big Grin

    - I brought this up during last week's episode and now I believe it even more that SJS had no business in this story. It was nice for nostalgic reasons in School Reunion, but they should've stuck with new series companions only here. Was this "warp star" the only reason she was there? That same warp star that didn't come into play at all, and the Daleks wiggled around all to easily?

    - Loved Davros. A lot of people wanted Molloy back in the role, but this actor made you forget that. The voice was near perfect, and although his right hand was a bit more active than past encounters (maybe explainable due to the metal prosthetic?), it was still very good.

    - Although some pointed out that it would make no sense for the Daleks and Davros to wipe out everything in reality except for themselves, I've got no problem with it. The crazy plan only highlights the true insanity of Davros which makes him a dangerous foe. My only issue with it is that when we see Davros again (come on...you don't really think he's dead do you?), is how will he be able to top this? Anything else will pretty much be a letdown. After almost wiping out everything in this reality, what could he possibly do that would one-up this master plan? Conquer Earth? Enslave humanity? Not even close...

    - German speaking Daleks were a nice touch. It might've been nicer to see Daleks all around the world also. Japan, France, Russia, etc...and Canada - "Exterminate, eh?"

    - I didn't really care for the whole DoctorDonna thing. Although slightly different, it felt too much like when Rose looked into the heart of the TARDIS. Almost like Bad Wolf-Donna, without the superpowers.

    - I did like the emotional good-bye with Wilf and The Doctor at the end. Although Donna's mum was clearly angered at what her time with The Doctor has cost Donna, Wilf seems to appreciate helping Donna become more than she was.

    - The half and half Doctor staying with Rose on parallel Earth is kind of an easy cop-out from a writing standpoint. Rose gets her Doctor (sort of). The Doctor gets to show his true feelings for Rose (sort of). And we the fans get a Doctor that can hopefully finally move on. Nevertheless, the damage has already been done by bringing her back, therefore watering down the 1st good-bye at the end of Doomsday. Please, oh please, let this really have been the last time we deal with parallel Earth.

    - I'm not sure why they didn't just have the TARDIS whip up something to materialize Earth back in its proper place. Planetary demat/remat isn't anything new and has been done before in the Whoniverse.

    - The Osterhagen key was kind of ridiculous. 25 nukes buried in the Earth to blow it up? Come on, that explosion would barely measure anything on the Richter scale. They should've just said they had assimilated some alien technology and built some more powerful mega-bombs that were buried. Human nukes probably don't instill much fear to alien races that can cross the galaxy at light speed...

    - The O-key also shows a change in direction for humankind in the show...almost like they're prepared to give up.

    - Time will tell if we've just seen our 2 newest Torchwood members. Although I'd rather see 2 different faces replace Owen and Tosh, so that the show can continue to differentiate itself from normal Who.

    - You almost have to think that we'll see Donna again. She's got The Doctor's mind hidden within her own, so that's gotta account for something. Is hiding it from her with the caveat that nobody can mention The Doctor or any of her adventures really that much better than killing her off? What does her being in this state accomplish, if nothing more than leaving an open door for a future story? Remember from The Doctor's Daughter thread, all of the Star Trek 2 jokes (terraforming/Jenny-back-to-life)? Does DoctorDonna become yet another reference? She's got his mind hidden in hers (possibly for later use?) - a la Spock/McCoy???

    - Kind of indifferent about the Cybermen at Christmas for now. I hope they're some remnant of the Battle of Canary Wharf, and not a group that has crossed from the parallel Earth. The return of Mondas Cybermen would be TV gold, but I think we have to accept the fact that we've seen the last of them.

    Overall I'd give it a reluctant 3.5 out of 5 (slightly better than a 3, and I don't want to start a quarter-ratings trend). Definitely better than Last of the Time Lords, but nowhere close to the 1st two finales. Clearly a let-down from its Stolen Earth lead in, as the polls on the home page confirm. Short of a true regeneration happening, last week's cliffhanger was almost impossible to satisy expectations. Resolving the regeneration/hand issue rather quickly more or less set the tone for the episode and what we could expect. It did have me on the edge of my seat almost the entire time waiting to find out which of The Doctor's "Children of Time" was going to die, but all for naught. Was this referring to Donna? Was hers another non-death like Rose's was foretold by The Beast? Or was it a premonition of things to come that we'll see in a future series? Either way we got hosed, since nobody really got offed here.

    -Steve

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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 11:43 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  romana_II] I'm simply speechless.

    I loved this episode, and coming from someone who actually really really liked the series 3 finale, I was blown away by this.

    I was so glad the regeneration didn't happen, and even through I knew that they would never do it for real in this episode, it went through my head this week quite often that it would. Because of this, I think I'll be much more prepared for when the time does come, and hopefully won't feel as upset when it does happen, because I've had this tester... so to speak.

    Also glad that no one actually 'died' I was fearing all week that they going to off Gwen and Ianto. Loved how it was Tosh that saved them.
    Also the connection of Gwen to Gweneth... finally!
    Little sad that Ianto barely made an appearance in this, but that's just my inner fangirl talking. Ignore her.

    Loved Jack's line in reaction to the 'three' doctors: "I can't tell you what I'm thinking right now"
    Oh I love you Jack... Razz

    Also quite enjoyed the Ten and Rose send off, and it's been interesting to read the LJ communities reactions to the Bad Wolf Bay scene what with all the Ten/Rose shippers that post there. Interesting because, when I watched that scene, I throught that the Ten/Rose shippers would be happy with it, but quite a few were not... Just can't please some fangirls can you.

    Very sad to see Donna go, with an extremely sad ending for Donna. Again, RTD has 'killed' off the companion without actually killing them.
    Reminded me of a series called Tsubasa, a story about many things but at the center of it is the relationship between a boy and a girl. An incident happens, and the girl loses her memories, and her life becomes in danger, and in order to save the girl he loves, the boy has find her memories but even if he gets them all back, she'll never remember him.

    It was horrible. And the Doctor at the end. Frown

    Overall, I loved this episode alot, it's 5/5 easy.
    It had everything, and ranged from very funny to very scary and to very depressing.
    Brillant.

    I'm also looking forward to the Christmas special in a big way. If I don't seen something resembling a musical number of "These boots were made for walking" with Cybermen, I will be a very disappointed fangirl.



    Oh, and I'll throw this bit of randomness out there since I know I'm not the only fangirl who giggled insanely and loved seeing this.

    NAKED TEN!!!

    *implodes*


    I didn't log on to podshock chat because I hadn't see the episode, but NAKED TEN! was a major highlight Smile
    (look everytime we mention this bit we're gonna have to shout it, right?)

    Sure, I loved seeing NAKED TEN....but I'd like to watch the confidential when DT's in a bathrobe??!?!? (link anyone? anyone?)

    As far as the 5/5, I'm in total agreement(again) with Romana II.

    also, I am quite surprised to hear that the fact that Rose gets a human doctor did not suit everyone. I think Rose would grow to understand this was a great gift that the Doctor had given her and really, it was what she did want.
    (that scene where he explains the fact he can't stay with her the rest of his Timelord life in School Reunion comes to mind....)

    I did need 5/5 tissues on the rewatch

    Big Grin

    "WOT?...WOT?" "WOT??????!!!!!" OUT!OUT!OUT!
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 11:57 AM EDT
    Who was the Doctor's most faithful companion?

    I think it was the "Human-Doctor" - after all he is an extension of the Doctor himself. The human-ness he devoloped through his travels has more or less been his "most faithful" companion.

    And for the "Death" didn't he "die" the same way Rose died? Rose died because she did not exist in this world anymore but the paralell one as the "Human-Doctor" now does.

    Does this make any sense?








    Just a thought!

    PS: I'm disappointed about the trailer for the Christmas special - I would like to see OUR cybermen - not the paralell world version!


    Last Minute afterthought:
    Does this mean that the Doctor is going to be "more alien"?

    "Make your last move, Doctor. Make your LAST move." The Celestial Toymaker to the Doctor in "The Celestial Toymaker: The Final Test"
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 12:30 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Tin Dog Podcast] is it better to Forget who you are or die?




    Neither are happy endings of course... but the one thing that Donna may have going for her is that her family (her mother in particular) now knows just how much she is capable. If Sylvia begins to treat her daughter with respect and Wilf continues being Wilf, then Donna can still have a meaningful life ahead of her and the character growth she experienced with the Doctor can still happen to some extent.

    But of course, it is all at the cost of never remembering the happiest days of her life, and that is extremely tragic. Not only for her, but also for Sylvia and Wilf. To not be able to share with her what she did for fear of losing her. That is just gut-wrenching (perhaps less so if anyone but Bernard Cribbins had played Wilf- he is just so good!)

    Anyhow, I guess the difference for me is one of hope. The hope that Donna can still have an enjoyable life, regardless of if it could ever match up with her time with the Doctor.

    Here's to the Temp from Chiswick!

    Coming to theaters this fall, Frau Blücher and Harpo Marx star in 'The Shadow Proclamation'!
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 12:36 PM EDT
    To the best temp in Chiswick!
    Hundred words per minute...

    -cs™

    http://twitter.com/Smittmaestro
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 12:44 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  rheimbro]
    [Quote  by:  Tin Dog Podcast] is it better to Forget who you are or die?




    Neither are happy endings of course... but the one thing that Donna may have going for her is that her family (her mother in particular) now knows just how much she is capable. If Sylvia begins to treat her daughter with respect and Wilf continues being Wilf, then Donna can still have a meaningful life ahead of her and the character growth she experienced with the Doctor can still happen to some extent.

    But of course, it is all at the cost of never remembering the happiest days of her life, and that is extremely tragic. Not only for her, but also for Sylvia and Wilf. To not be able to share with her what she did for fear of losing her. That is just gut-wrenching (perhaps less so if anyone but Bernard Cribbins had played Wilf- he is just so good!)

    Anyhow, I guess the difference for me is one of hope. The hope that Donna can still have an enjoyable life, regardless of if it could ever match up with her time with the Doctor.

    Here's to the Temp from Chiswick!


    I agree. I think the most interesting aspect of Donna's fate is how it emphasises that the difference between those people who change the world and those that think they are nothing is they regard themselves. Donna changed because she stopped thinking of herself as a nobody, thanks to the Doctor. Hopefully her Mum and Wilf can help her be that person again.

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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 01:21 PM EDT

    My feelings towards this season’s conclusion are pretty harsh. Can’t help it – it just didn’t work for me – at all. RTD took the piss on the regen straight away, thusly making that rite of passage a little less sacred in the canon from now on – especially when Tennant does finally go. Thanks a lot for that one. Frankly, that set the tone from the first minute onward – it was all downhill after fedging that crucial piece of Who mythology. At least that damned hand is finally gone, though...

    Frankly, there just wasn’t much to sing about in this finale, IMO. I liked last year’s much better, limp middle installment in “Drums” and all. This just had all the overproduced gloss and untempered madness of a trainwreck you couldn’t look away from. It’s clear now on his way out the door that Russell’s biggest weakness is having the ability to take all the playthings from the toybox and have his merry way – he works at his absolute finest when forced to be clever due to certain story restrictions, as evidenced in “Midnight” weeks ago. “Journey’s” was engaging to watch in an odd sort of way, but just kept getting worse to me, the further it went along. After more action-slow-mo garbage with “poser Doctor” running from the TARDIS with his DIY-Dalek-killer gun, it just got unbearably abysmal – at least until the very end, which was serviceable. The whole “companions hooting and hollering it up whilst backslapping one another” in the sub-basement of the Dalek Crucible was severely painful – someone elsewhere in the fan community compared that whole sequence to an episode of “The Wiggles” - personally, I’m inclined to agree. What a load of bollocks that whole bit was – so, Daleks can be controlled by one giant keyboard console with big, flashy switches? Um, yeah – awesome, RTD. Don’t even get me started on the whole “towing the Earth home” BS – like Louis and others have said, I can suspend disbelief to a point, but my god – what was THAT!? Seriously, WTF...

    The whole Doctor/Donna thing was crap, really. The acting seemed to take a tremendous dip, too – once Tennant began impersonating Tate, and vice versa. Sad that Dalek Caan’s “Threefold Man” was, in fact, merely a post-regen-cheat 10th Doctor, his crapola clone, and Donna with “the Doctor’s mind.” Even worse still, the contradictory nature of her fate in lieu of that fact – so, she can’t handle Timelord intelligence coursing through her brain, and yet, this clone of 10, who has the same biological makeup as a normal human being with one heart (hence his ability to age and die like a normal person so he can be with Rose) won’t also potentially burn up likewise with the same issue? Shoddy, shoddy writing. It was a fate worse than death for Donna in being mindwiped back to her shallow, former self, to be sure – and normally I’d respect such a dark twist on the obvious, opposed to a mere “death,” but I must admit – I also found this to be a bit much – quite harsh, really. Though, thanks to the winky “flickering” of the lighting on her ring’s honking giant jewel, I’d be shocked if it didn’t all come up again with Donna “regaining” this knowledge, at some point. Probably just another lame red herring like last year’s “Flash Gordon” moment with the Master’s ring – it’ll probably never even surface again. Still, you never know...

    And yes, then there’s Rose – getting her own little bone thrown (lol – ouch) with clone boy to live “happily (sorta) ever after.” What a joke. The end of Series 2 basically means next to nothing now, in my eyes. It’s impact is completely devalued thanks to this lame plot device. It reeks. “Doomsday” was so fitting, so perfect – why ultimately go there? Why mirror the beach thing all over again and taint it even more? It’s just poor beyond comprehension. I expected more from RTD here – not such a soppy, lame cop-out to top the other mega cop-out he’d already served up at the beginning with the fake regen. It’s very disappointing. And it’s obvious she was still dissatisfied with the situation as she ran towards the TARDIS as it dematerialized – which made this all the worse and unnecessary to behold, in my eyes.

    Davros was the only saving grace for me, really. Julian Bleach has the unfortunate disservice of delivering the best returning villain performance of the revived series thus far, only to have it wedged into an ambitiously haphazard clusterfrack of a 2-part series finale. He was truly great. Although, that last bit was kind of preposterous - “I name YOU the destroyer of WORLDS!” - um, yeah – what were YOU doing, Davs? Just kidding around with the whole reality bomb, “all atoms to dust” bit? Laughable, that part was.

    I must agree that the relations between Jack and Rose were painfully underplayed (given their “history”), not to mention Jackie, Gwen, Ianto and SJ all being essentially pointless in this, really. Mickey and K-9 did more than anyone – and that’s still not saying very much, is it? And Martha, as usual, runs around with some underlying grand purpose, yet, never seems to do anything, really. She’s just window-dressing in the end. Thinking back on it, her whole presence in this season was pretty pointless, actually.

    The last few minutes at least seemed to set things right again with the Doctor’s character, but man, at what cost during the 60 minutes prior to that – jeez. Cribbins was great in the final scene he had – further proof he was the real anchor through much of this year’s run.

    I’m really shocked at the overall positive reception this finale seems to be getting all over the DW fan community – it’s rather sad, in terms of the quality of some of the rest of this year’s run. We deserved much better at the end. And RTD is capable of so much more, as “Midnight” proved. This was just overglorified fanwank mixed with bad writing, flashy visuals and limp one-liners. It messed with our emotions in ways that were unfair, and completely unnecessary. I’ve frankly lost some slight respect for all involved, really. It’s going to take some serious revitalization on the production team’s part to put the series back on track to good graces after this – for me, anyway. And Cybermen at Christmas ain’t gonna do it, either. The ‘Moff will jumpstart the series once more. This I know. Anyone who doesn’t see major changes for the better coming with his reign is being severely shortsighted. My enthusiasm is on the verge of cryo-freeze until 2010, when I know things will be worth getting worked up over once more. Whatever Russell’s got left in his stale writing bag between the 5 remaining specials before then, I could care less, really. Here’s hoping he’s not writing all of them – if not, maybe a few will be well above the bar, after witnessing this mess.

    I think RTD worked major magic in bringing Who into the new millennium, yes – but this finale shows just how creatively bankrupt he’s become after 4 years when it comes to delivering the goods come a season’s big end. Eccleston’s finale remains the absolute best for me – the rest of them have gradual drop-off beginning slightly in year 2, a sloppy inverted sandwich with last year's Master fiasco, ending with this complete and total mess of Year 4’s conclusion. Wish I felt differently, but alas, it’s not the case I’m afraid. I’m glad so many others had fun with this “romp,” but for me, it just didn’t add up or pay off at all. A real shame indeed.

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 01:56 PM EDT
    One nice thing out of it though - "the rift is sealing itself - permanently". Assuming that doesn't mean "until we want to bring you back again."

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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 02:26 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Will-I-Am]
    My feelings towards this season’s conclusion are pretty harsh. Can’t help it – it just didn’t work for me – at all. RTD took the piss on the regen straight away, thusly making that rite of passage a little less sacred in the canon from now on – especially when Tennant does finally go. Thanks a lot for that one. Frankly, that set the tone from the first minute onward – it was all downhill after fedging that crucial piece of Who mythology. At least that damned hand is finally gone, though...


    I've read this point in several places now and I don't understand it. Is the concept of regeneration really sacred in [i]Who[/i] to be only touched upon when an actor changes? I quite like the notion of it being used in stories for reasons other than to change the Doctor.

    Regeneration is a "rite of passage" for viewers only as much as the actor playing the Doctor changes. Which, especially for kids, is a big deal. I don't think that changes and arguably the notion that regeneration might not mean change will keep a little bit more of a cliffhanger for when Tennant does change.

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     Monday, July 07 2008 @ 02:45 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Will-I-Am]I’m really shocked at the overall positive reception this finale seems to be getting all over the DW fan community – it’s rather sad, in terms of the quality of some of the rest of this year’s run.

    Once again, I really don't understand why some need to get upset about other's opinions. You hated it. You make some good points. Others disagree with your points and make other good points. They (I) loved it. We're sorry you don't feel the same, No need to describe our opinions as 'sad'. There is a certain arrogance in that.

    Oh and one other point. Who's to say that the TARDIS cannot tow a planet? Has this ever been mentioned? Isn't it one of the most powerful devices in creation able to tap into the source of time/space itself. Why is it that that aspect is believable but it's ability to pull something heavy isn't?

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