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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  The Next Doctor [SPOILERS]
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    The Next Doctor [SPOILERS] Views: 13964
     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 01:44 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?
    I think the question you really should be asking is why the hell did gold dust affect the old Cybermen? It's a silly sort of kryptonite for a being made of metal.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 02:16 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?


    Actually, the originals—in The Tenth Planet—were killed by radiation and energy overload/drain. It was only in the seventies and eighties that the writers got stuck on the "gold" crutch and then totally distorted it to where it didn't make any sense at all. The concept of a glitter gun which would, one assumes, send a cloud of fine gold dust into the electronics causing short circuits all over the place is interesting, but the way the gold vulnerability was actually handled in the later stories was down right ludicrous.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 02:38 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  romana_II] Glad to see I'm not the only one who loved it.

    I'd hate this episode to be like Last of the Timelords or Adric is for me.

    (I love them both heaps, but I seem to be one of the few people in fandom that do)


    Well, I liked it much more than VotD, but I think I have been too entrenched in the spoilers of late... (I also don't understand why everyone hates Adric, but that'd be for another thread!)

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 02:42 PM EST
    Here's a question to the forum moderators- why is this thread under "General Doctor Who Chatter" and not "The David Tennant Era"?

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 03:13 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  rocko] Here's a question to the forum moderators- why is this thread under "General Doctor Who Chatter" and not "The David Tennant Era"?


    Moved

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 03:36 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  rocko] Here's a question to the forum moderators- why is this thread under "General Doctor Who Chatter" and not "The David Tennant Era"?


    Maybe we are slacking off during the holidays? Oh, no, not Dave, but I may be! Wink Oops! Razz

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 07:12 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  romana_II]I can't believe how much many people disliked this.


    Just 10 to 15 minutes of it.

    [Quote  by:  romana_II]What do you people want? You never ever seem to be happy with anything.


    As I said, I was really enjoying the episode, and the way it was going, Morrissey and all (my wife didn't like him at all).

    But the Cyberking was so ridiculous, that only RTD would dare write it into Doctor Who. And he's done such things repeatedly.

    To me, it just isn't Who. Nor is the Doctor being turned into Gollum or whatever the hell that thing is from Harry Potter. Or his flying around like an angel.

    Who has always had the absurd. But there's the absurd, and then there's the absurd.

    [Quote  by:  romana_II]Is there something wrong with me for loving this episode.


    No, as long as it's recognized that not everybody will have the same tastes that you do. I mean, there are people out there that love the episode "Love and Monsters"! And I'm wondering what's wrong with them. Laughing Out Loud


    I'm thinking back now again to how the story played out, and how well RTD did keep it to the vest within the story on the reveal of Morrissey's character. Not giving away the sound of his heartbeat, the Doctor commenting on how much money the Other Doctor has (leading to my comment on whether he's just a scam artist). It was written well, and that's where RTD continues to shine, when he keeps things small.

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     Friday, December 26 2008 @ 09:01 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  silvanthalas]
    I'm thinking back now again to how the story played out, and how well RTD did keep it to the vest within the story on the reveal of Morrissey's character. Not giving away the sound of his heartbeat, the Doctor commenting on how much money the Other Doctor has (leading to my comment on whether he's just a scam artist). It was written well, and that's where RTD continues to shine, when he keeps things small.


    Actually, there was a line about the heartbeat originally, but it was removed to keep the mystery just a bit longer. This was mentioned in the Doctor Who Confidential episode for the special.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Saturday, December 27 2008 @ 01:58 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    [Quote  by:  spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?
    I think the question you really should be asking is why the hell did gold dust affect the old Cybermen? It's a silly sort of kryptonite for a being made of metal.


    Well, these Cybermen are not related in any way to the original Cybermen. Created on an alternate Earth, they don't have the same breathing mechanisms of the originals. Therefore gold doesn't affect them.

    Some people may not recall that it's gold DUST that kills Cybermen because it interferes with their breathing aparatus. Clogs the breathing vents, etc.

    Which is why it's so stupid in "Silver Nemesis" that Ace can kill a Cyberman by slingshotting a gold nugget at them. Uh... it seems some writer recalled that gold killed Cybermen, but forgot to research why.

    A gold nugget would have no effect. But it did in that one.

    So in this one, gold would not work anyway, because these are not the Mondasian Cybermen with their poorly designed breathing systems.

    Sean.

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Saturday, December 27 2008 @ 07:16 AM EST
    I think I've used this phrase to describe most of seasons 3 and 4, but I'd say this episode wasn't good, but wasn't bad either.

    Another void story. oh great. yippee. When are they just going to be done with it? I'd much rather them have a Cyberman escape each time (a la Davros in the classic series), rather than keep dipping into the void for Cybermen/Dalek plots.

    This children/slave labor angle didn't bother me so much as why use children anyway? They're small and weak. Why not kidnap a bunch of adults to do their job?

    Miss Hartigan seemed like she could be an interesting character, but they didn't give us enough of a backstory to care. btw, the actress seemed very familiar...has she ever done any significant work in the US? I'm sure I haven't seen her in anything British (unless she was in Who previously, or Torchwood)

    I'm not familiar with any of David Morrissey's work (off the top of my head), but I did enjoy his acting a lot. He struck me as a cross between Peter Davison and Liam Neeson. Once you find out his true identity, he is a character you can actually feel for.

    As everyone is mentioning, the 10 Doctors in the infostamp was easily the best part of the story.

    The 2nd best thing about the story for me was the music. Kind of like the action-packed, fast paced music from the old swashbuckling films.

    Does this mean that BBC has officially gone Hollywood, now that Megatron has had a cameo in a Who story?

    Overall, middle of the road. 3 out of 5 for me. Easily the best Xmas story so far, which unfortunately isn't saying much.

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     Saturday, December 27 2008 @ 08:11 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    [Quote  by:  spoo] yeah, and why the heck isn't the doctor using gold dust to kill these cybermen? Are they not affected like the originals?
    I think the question you really should be asking is why the hell did gold dust affect the old Cybermen? It's a silly sort of kryptonite for a being made of metal.
    Well, these Cybermen are not related in any way to the original Cybermen. Created on an alternate Earth, they don't have the same breathing mechanisms of the originals. Therefore gold doesn't affect them.
    Oh, I think we recall literally why gold fouls up the earlier Cybermen. The question is why there are breathing systems at all. This illogical weakness is a part of why Cybermen are generally such problems. No one has sat down and thought them through. And this gold weakness totally proves it. They're replacing body parts to be stronger, but don't find a workaround for the respiratory system? One of the weakest aspects of the human design is the need to breathe, yet the Cybermen still do it? The elimination of emotions was deemed more important—and was miraculously more achievable—than the elimination of the respiratory system? When you really listen to "The Tenth Planet", nothing that follows makes a lot of sense. And, really, even "Planet" itself posits something remarkably unrealistic. The notion that humans would voluntarily choose to have their emotions removed is . . . well, let's just say a remarkable assertion.

    But I digress. Let's just admit to this breathing apparatus thing of old. Why in the hell does gold dust screw with it? Surely the point of the apparatus is to filter air. Why would gold dust particularly clog it? Why wouldn't you be able to overwhelm the filter with a suitable amount of any fine particle? Sand, for instance, would seem to an invaluable agent in this regard. But no, it's magically gold that must do the trick. And so Cybermen have the lamest weakness of any villain ever created. It's only gold because gold is comparatively rare, not because it makes any real sense.

    Frankly the Cybus Cybermen are a logical improvement on their "Doctor's universe" compatriots. Their weakness is their comparatively primitive technology. But, yanno, I buy the way in which they were created a whole lot more than the implication of what the 1963 series told us. They're the result of the madness of a sick, but brilliant, individual. And they're emotions aren't gone; they're inhibited. Which is a cool twist.

    Nevertheless, they're still dramatically uninteresting because they're all victims. They're fighting for something in which they don't believe. They are just big, dumb robots.

    Until and unless Cybermen are shown to have individuality, personality, and some sort of imperfect emotional inhibition, they'll remain the dullest of adversaries. Everyone seems to dislike Torchwood's "Cyberwoman" episode, and there are certainly reasons for that. But the emotional depiction of half-conversion was far more interesting than full conversion. Likewise, Kroton from the DWM comic strips was compelling and even heroic in his Tin Man's quest to regain his heart.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Saturday, December 27 2008 @ 12:44 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]

    1 part "Iron Giant", you mean. :-)


    "The Iron Man" (Ted Hughes) converted to the Iron Giant for the American Market (at the same time as losing the Dragon which used Australia as a nest).

    (To be fair, I think the name change may have been to avoid the legal wrath of Marvel Comics)

    I was more remindered of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, particularly since "The Valiant" was also nicked from it.

    Overall.

    I liked:
    1) Not set in Christmas this year
    2) No robots which looked like a) Santa b) Angels c) anything Christmasy
    3) Cyberleader with cool Black Face

    I didn't like
    1) Waifs, who looked like West-End stage school rejects from Oliver
    2) Using said waifs as guilt trip (Let 'em die I say)
    3) Token Black Lady, who is not treated by those around her in the context of the period.
    4) Iron Man/Sky Captain Robot/ Steam Punk Transformers
    5) Use of a hot air ballon for no apparent reason
    6) Saying Cyber King is a ship, like the Doctor has encountered the parallel world cyber-men, and there technology, somewhere else since Doomsday.
    7) Use of a Tiny Tim waif as "lost property" of Mr Lake

    Over all ranks behind "Voyage of the damned", "runaway bride" but above "Christmas Invasion" for me.



    In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are Kings
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     Saturday, December 27 2008 @ 02:33 PM EST
    For me this episode probably got a 3.5 out 5. Like the other Christmas Specials it was a nice little package of Doctor Who meant to tide you over. Some things I liked, first I really enjoyed David Morrissey, if he hadn’t been used here I wouldn’t have minded him being him a later Doctor. Who knows maybe they still could they did it with Colin Baker and Freema Agyeman. Second I like how they sometimes take tidbits from spin-off media for plot. The idea of having someone becoming the Doctor because of absorbing his memories was similar idea used in the Big Finish Audio Minuet in Hell. If you haven’t listened to it yet I recommend it I thought it was good. And finally I enjoyed that the Doctor finally accepted someone’s offer to stay for a meal. I agree that the Cyberking was over the top. I have enjoyed RTD's writing especially during the first series but sometimes he sticks stuff in there that makes you wonder. That’s pretty much my biggest complaint with the episode but I also thought Miss Hartigan should have been given more story. Anyways that’s it from me for now.

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     Saturday, December 27 2008 @ 03:56 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  silvanthalas] biggest one that springs to mind is the infostamps. Specifically, how an infostamp with all this info on the Doctor came into existence. It's another of those semi-sized plot holes that RTD is so good for throwing out there every couple of stories he writes. Confused


    I guess you missed the line where the Doctor speculates that they were taken from the Daleks in the Void. The Daleks would have info on all the Doctors, wouldn't they?

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Monday, December 29 2008 @ 08:33 AM EST
    I felt this was the best Christmas special to date. Far, far better than VotD and better than Runaway Bride. I'm not saying there wasn't problems or plot holes but I feel that people are being overly critical of it.

    My one disappointment is that Morrissey is most definitely not going to be the 11th Doctor. I had a sinking feeling that he wasn't but I really, really hoped that I was wrong. I actually almost turned it off when I found out he wasn't. I'm glad I finished it though because the chemistry between Tennant/Morrissey was great.

    Fans are never happy though. I've read people criticizing the way Rosita was treated as not historically accurate. Then people complaining that she was "just a nursemaid." Black people in Britain while not treated as equals, were treated a lot better than their counterparts in America.

    Not a huge fan of the Cybermen so it wasn't great in that regard and I don't like the tie-in between Cybermen and Daleks.

    I enjoyed it. 4/5

    "You would make a good Dalek."
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