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| Planet of the Dead |
Views: 5557 |
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barnabeee
Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 103
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 Friday, March 27 2009 @ 10:42 AM EDT |
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And of course, now its unscheduled!  I think a game of cat and mouse with ITV is going on here! But is darned annoying for those of us trying to make some special watching plans
I am very excited about this. I know next to nothing about it, and that's pretty darned cool, IMO!
@Chase - Why even bother watching anymore if you don't like it? It doesn't sound like its to your taste anymore (whatever taste that might be!)
Russell has done wonders for "Who", and I am very sorry he is leaving. And I won't be a bit surprised if some of these same criticsims are trotted out in 2-3 years for Mr Moffat! The curse of being "The Man" I guess! |
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If you're in the New York area come join us for Pub and Video meets - http://DWNY.org
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silvanthalas
Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 118
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| Friday, March 27 2009 @ 04:33 PM EDT |
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Man, I've got a lot of red eyes to take that weekend, what with new Who and the new episodes of Red Dwarf airing each night that weekend.  |
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Chase
Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 505
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| Friday, March 27 2009 @ 10:52 PM EDT |
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| Uhm, did you read my posts? I love DW and the ideas of DW and I loved almost all of season one, two, three and four but when DW is bad now it's awfully bad and the "specials" should be better written, not just bigger in effects and in the world danger crap but the specials should be special in writing dept and in the plot and dialog. They're not. Just because I like a lot of DW doesn't mean I have to like all of it or like any old crap they trot out at me and yeah, my posts are critical. DW can be GREAT but some of the time it's just mediocre. RTD is awful now. Yeah, he's written some of he best of DW (DOOMSDAY is just amazing and so are his scripts for the first season but really did you like NEW EARTH? And the way that Master three parter ended?) but "the man" is just so full of himself that he can't let go and admit he hasn't a new idea in his head...staying on can ruin DW as JNT showed us. JNT was fantastic when he first started but then he gave us TRIAL and TIME AND THE RANI. RTD is rapidly heading that way. |
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DrWho001
Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 65
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| Saturday, March 28 2009 @ 07:09 PM EDT |
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Schedules are still to be finalised but there is a Doctor Who size gap to be announced from 6:25pm until 7:25pm when Robin Hood is scheduled.
As it stands if it takes that slot it overlaps with the first 20 minutes of Primeval, which doesn't bother me as I have never seen it. |
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Chase
Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 505
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| Saturday, March 28 2009 @ 07:44 PM EDT |
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| tape one and watch PRIMEVAL, it's a better show! |
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Dalzo
Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 93
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| Saturday, March 28 2009 @ 08:51 PM EDT |
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| [Quote by: Chase] Uhm, did you read my posts? I love DW and the ideas of DW and I loved almost all of season one, two, three and four but when DW is bad now it's awfully bad and the "specials" should be better written, not just bigger in effects and in the world danger crap but the specials should be special in writing dept and in the plot and dialog. They're not. Just because I like a lot of DW doesn't mean I have to like all of it or like any old crap they trot out at me and yeah, my posts are critical. DW can be GREAT but some of the time it's just mediocre. RTD is awful now. Yeah, he's written some of he best of DW (DOOMSDAY is just amazing and so are his scripts for the first season but really did you like NEW EARTH? And the way that Master three parter ended?) but "the man" is just so full of himself that he can't let go and admit he hasn't a new idea in his head...staying on can ruin DW as JNT showed us. JNT was fantastic when he first started but then he gave us TRIAL and TIME AND THE RANI. RTD is rapidly heading that way. |
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I am all for criticising bad episodes. I am not a big fan of New Earth (although whereas you seem to think RTD has no new ideas I think this suffers from having too many ideas and convoluting the story). I do feel, however, that you are a little too aggressive in you criticisms! You make out that you are an authority on what is good and what is bad and quite frankly you are not! As a fan of over 25 years who owns every episode of Doctor Who (in whatever form they exist) including all the Doctor Who Big Finish Audios and who has gone through them all chronologically many a time I can honestly say I absolutely love the end of The Last Of The Timelords. I find the humiliation of the Doctor in that episode heartbreaking and hard to watch and I think that when he finally comes back it is truly a spine tingling moment. That said I do understand peoples problems with it and I accept them!
If I was a brand new fan who watches selected episodes of Doctor Who and read your views I would be put off watching these stories but I genuinely believe that every story has some merit to it. The end of TLOTT is fantastic for children who are only starting to understand what makes great television. They may never have seen anything like this before. I have friends who only watch the new series. They have two children and all had massive smiles on their faces when they watched the ending of TLOTT. And when they saw "The Stolen Earth" and "Journeys End" they were truly blown away. It is the new audience (especially the children) that Doctor Who is now predominantly for, not us, and it is truly important we remember this!
Do I think every story of Doctor Who is fantastic...? No, I think The Invasion Of Time, as a story, is absolutely dreadful with so much padding it is unbelievable (the last two episodes are just a runaround in a very unconvincing TARDIS interior) but I can watch it for the performances and the humour. I also know that it is a much loved episode and that is good enough for me.
Criticise by all means but don't make out that there is NOTHING good in the episodes you dislike because there are. You just choose to dismiss them because they don't fit in with what YOU consider to be good Doctor Who/Television!
As for RTD, some of his stories are weak but when you consider that he rewrites all but a very few episodes (chiefly Steven Moffats) and he gives all of the writers a brief on what the story should be about... He is the mastermind of the series and has to take most of the credit for what has been an unbelievable success! I have said before that I am glad he is leaving but only because I want the show to remain fresh. I think the last season was brilliant and ( I will use the word again) a success and showed that he has not outstayed his welcome!
Finally on the specials. The Christmas Specials, in my opinion are some of the weaker stories. That said, if the casual viewer enjoys them then they have served their purpose. Remember, the Christmas Specials are meant to be over the top, easy viewing for Christmas Day when everyone is winding down and taking it easy. It is meant to be light and frothy and is aimed at the casual viewer, not us hardcore fans who will dissect it bit by bit! I do hope, though, that the specials this year have a bit more substance, simply because we do not have a full series this year.
To sum up my post, a little bit of loyalty from you for the series would be nice. And RTD is going, never to return, so please chill out, and look for the good in episodes you dislike... Because the good is there (even in the weaker stories) if you choose to remove the blinkers from your eyes and see it!!! |
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Chase
Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 505
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| Saturday, March 28 2009 @ 09:12 PM EDT |
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Everybody has their own opinion and I'm just saying mine. I find no value in story or character for Stolen Earth but mostly Journey's End. I don't consider myself an atuhority by any means I just know what I like and what I hate. And no ---IMO every DW story does NOT have good in it. We disagree on Last of the Time Lords and maybe leaving it at that is good enough. I find the whole "return" sort of stolen from Peter Pan and not a very good steal at that. I find the Doctor's humiliation silly and stupid, especially as he's turned old and forced to watch the Earth invaded by...humans turned into creatures and then turned into a Yoda! It's pointless really and adds nothing to the show or the story, for me. Others can enjoy it all they want. Yea I"m agressive because DW can be so much more than some of the more recent junk and again, I'm criticizing a small handful of eps as opposed to the ones I really like (the two part Empire State Building trash, the crappy two part Master story and the awful season four ending episodes --two of those but I tend to thnk TURN LEFT is a bit too depressing but it has merit; and oh, NEW EARTH is garbage). Throw in a bit of VOYAGE of the DAMNED which has its moments (the trailer at the end of it was good) and NEXT DOCTOR (which DOEShave a few good moments ---like the goodbye scene at the end and the Xmas mood at the start) and that is what? 10 out of over 50 eps, I'd hardly say that's a whole hatred of DW. And if you add the old series that might add about ten more stories, two Hartnells, maybe three Troughtons, two of more of Pertwee, and about four Tom Baker's, (I take the 5th on the 5th Doctor as I've not seen those for some time but they are next and I'm looking forard to it), all of TRIAL which I HATE, al of McCoy's first season except DELTA which I love, and about half of Colin's first season ( I like TWIN DILEMMA, MARK OF THE RANI and...I think that might be it).
And I"m not about what I collect. It makes me no expert but I do collect ALL the novels inclduing the recent LIMITED run novel TIME'S CHAMPION, all the comics (right now there' about six series of them), and all the audios. It makes no difference. Anyone can state their opinion and that's fine for me. I just know what I like and what I find offensive, silly, and patronizing for ME, not for others. If you like LAST OF THE TIME LORDS more power to you.
Oh and just because something is supposed to be light entertainment doesn't mean we should have to be patronized and given drivel and nonsense as we were with NEXT DOCTOR. |
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Chase
Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 505
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| Saturday, March 28 2009 @ 09:17 PM EDT |
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| Oh dear God, I just realized Stephen Moffat wrote TIME CRASH, OMG! I hope we get more BLINK and EMPTY CHILD and less TIME CRASH and CURSE OF FATAL DEATH! |
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Dalzo
Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 93
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| Saturday, March 28 2009 @ 10:54 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Chase] Everybody has their own opinion and I'm just saying mine. I find no value in story or character for Stolen Earth but mostly Journey's End. I don't consider myself an atuhority by any means I just know what I like and what I hate. And no IMO every DW story does have good in it. We disagree on Last of the Time Lords and maybe leaving it at that is good enough. I find the whole "return" sort of stolen from Peter Pan and not a very good steal at that. I find the Doctor's humiliation silly and stupid, especially as he's turned old and forced to watch the Earth invaded by...humans turned into creatures and then turned into a Yoda! It's pointless really and adds nothing to the show or the story, for me. Others can enjoy it all they want. Yea I"m agressive because DW can be so much more than some of the more recent junk and again, I'm criticizing a small handful of eps as opposed to the ones I really like (the two part Empire State Building trash, the crappy two part Master story and the awful season four ending episodes --two of those but I tend to thnk TURN LEFT is a bit too depressing but it has merit; and oh, NEW EARTH is garbage). Throw in a bit of VOYAGE of the DAMNED which has its moments (the trailer at the end of it was good) and NEXT DOCTOR (which DOEShave a few good moments ---like the goodbye scene at the end and the Xmas mood at the start) and that is what? 10 out of over 50 eps, I'd hardly say that's a whole hatred of DW. And if you add the old series that might add about ten more stories, two Hartnells, maybe three Troughtons, two of more of Pertwee, and about four Tom Baker's, (I take the 5th on the 5th Doctor as I've not seen those for some time but they are next and I'm looking forard to it), all of TRIAL which I HATE, al of McCoy's first season except DELTA which I love, and about half of Colin's first season ( I like TWIN DILEMMA, MARK OF THE RANI and...I think that might be it).
And I"m not about what I collect. It makes me no expert but I do collect ALL the novels inclduing the recent LIMITED run novel TIME'S CHAMPION, all the comics (right now there' about six series of them), and all the audios. It makes no difference. Anyone can state their opinion and that's fine for me. I just know what I like and what I find offensive, silly, and patronizing for ME, not for others. If you like LAST OF THE TIME LORDS more power to you.
Oh and just because something is supposed to be light entertainment doesn't mean we should have to be patronized and given drivel and nonsense as we were with NEXT DOCTOR. |
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I never for one second thought you had a hatred for the whole of Doctor Who (otherwise you wouldn't be so passionate about it) but you certainly give the IMPRESSION that you hate all the RTD era. But if you really do like about 40/50 of RTD's era then why the anger and bile in your posts? Why the eagerness for RTD to leave? You say he is doing just what JNT did in the latter years of his tenure which is ridiculous considering the ratings continue to go UP and not down like JNT's era. Surely this proves that whatever you think of him as a writer; as a producer and showrunner he is doing EXACTLY the right thing!
As for him as a writer, as I stated, he rewrites nearly all the scripts which means using your figures he has a success rate of nearly 80% (he rewrote a large portion of "Human Nature"/"Family Of Blood" for example). Surely that is a great track record. Why are you not pleased and thrilled at what he has done for our favorite television programme? Furthermore, you are eager for him to go despite saying that for the most part he has done great things from "Rose" to "Midnight". So, judging him by his recent work (so we can exclude "New Earth" from this argument which we both agree is not his finest hour) you only really dislike his last 2 stories (One of which you have admitted has good things in it). You liked "Midnight" and found "Turn Left" had merit (if depressing) TWO BAD STORIES(in your opinion)... IT'S AN OUTRAGE, HE SHOULD BE HUNG DRAWN AND QUARTERED FOR THE DAMAGE HE IS DOING THE SHOW!!! If you really mean everything you have said you should be praising the man! Even the great Robert Holmes had dodgy stories ("The Krotons" and "The Two Doctors" spring to mind). I just don't understand the anger and the almost exclusively negative tones of your posts! The show is doing brilliantly, the output for the most part is excellent... What exactly is your problem? |
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merlin_mccarley
Registered: 07/30/06
Posts: 733
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| Saturday, March 28 2009 @ 11:08 PM EDT |
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| [Quote by: Dalzo] Why the eagerness for RTD to leave? |
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And Why the CONTINUAL Double Posts? |
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I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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Idiom
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 722
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| Sunday, March 29 2009 @ 05:34 AM EDT |
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| [Quote by: Dalzo] To sum up my post, a little bit of loyalty from you for the series would be nice. And RTD is going, never to return, so please chill out, and look for the good in episodes you dislike... Because the good is there (even in the weaker stories) if you choose to remove the blinkers from your eyes and see it!!! |
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Come on guys. Let's not forget personal taste. You can't force somebody to like something, just as you shouldn't try to shut somebody up on the forums just because their opinion is different from yours!
I have to say that I agree with very little of what Chase says, but it IS his opinion and he is entitled to express it. Unless of course you feel that we should make a rule on the forums which stipulates positive comments only.
People seem to get so angry with Chase and there is a certain irony in that, isn't there? Expressing anger at somebody expressing anger? Chill guys. As people keep sayig to Chase: if you doesn't like the show, why watch it? I say the same thing about his posts, if you don't like them, you don't have to read them.
However, I do have to say that the anally retentive part of me doesn't understand the double posting. |
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Dalzo
Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 93
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| Sunday, March 29 2009 @ 05:46 AM EDT |
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Sorry if I appear angry because I am not. It's the constant negative tone that I am trying to challenge, not stop! I have problems with a lot of RTD's ideas and am happy to talk about them (for example, I too, wish he would get away from humans from time to time) but I would always try to counterbalance the negative with the positive.
I love a good debate, which is what I thought Chase and I were having and as a former Philosophy student I try never to insult or constrict a persons view. I do try to change somebodys mind but only through the power of my argument. I am interested in why Chase seems so hostile. The last post I made was purely a response to Chase's response. I used what he said to put a point across. I don't want him to stop posting OR to change his views (unless he is convinced by mine. Similarily, it not that rare an occasion that I have my views changed by another persons... Maybe I will this time). If people can't express their views, whether it be Chase or me, then these forums would become meaningless and even more importantly they would be no fun at all!!! |
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Idiom
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 722
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| Sunday, March 29 2009 @ 06:21 AM EDT |
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| [Quote by: Dalzo] If people can't express their views, whether it be Chase or me, then these forums would become meaningless and even more importantly they would be no fun at all!!! |
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Of course! That's my point entirely. It's just there does seem to be quite a lot of anti-Chase posting recently. I hate the posters who seem to think that t's OK to express their opinions agressively against each other (I'm not accusing you of this, by the way). The HOWCANYOUPOSSIBLYTHINKTHAT attitudes which I find, quite frankly, patronising (I hate this almost as much as I hate pedants!). This is different, I believe from expressing negativity against a show, which Chase doesn't always do - look at his postings on the deadly Assassin and Seems of Doom which are extremely positive.
I like the fact that he is brave enough to say he doesn't like things. |
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Chase
Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 505
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| Sunday, March 29 2009 @ 11:24 AM EDT |
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| Thank you Idiom. It doesn't mean I don't respect others if they have different opinions from mine. I've always found some DW fans who seem to think they can say what they want without anyone else disagreeing wit them. People can disagree but not be so hostile about it. Just say what you think about the show and that's fine. We all have the right to disagree. |
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Chase
Registered: 03/25/08
Posts: 505
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| Sunday, March 29 2009 @ 11:26 AM EDT |
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| Yeah I didn't feel Dalzo was being insulting but I do take up offense at someone trying to change someone's mind in some way, it smacks of I don't know: I'm right and you're wrongness. I don't try to change someone's mind, I just write a review of what I like and don't like. |
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