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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  Planet of the Dead [Spoiler Edition]
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    Planet of the Dead [Spoiler Edition] Views: 12038
     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 08:13 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Chase] It was okay. Iíd give it a 6/10 or even a 7/10.

    Okay, so you quite like it, gave it a 6/10 or 7/10 but have spent about three posts criticising it and once again going on about the mediocrity of the show (I am getting the slight impression you are wanting RTD to move on Big Grin). How 'bout giving us a post (just one, doesn't have to be three) giving us the positives of the episodes without any negativity. Justify your 6/10 score you give it 'cos just from reading your posts I would imagine you scoring it 2/10. Go on, just for once give us a decent paragraph with the positives... Think of it as a challenge if you will...

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 10:32 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Idiom]
    [Quote  by:  barnabeee] If you believe that then you are crazy.

    No, not crazy. Read it somewhere a while back. Might be true. Might not be. The BBC have finished massively popular shows before at the height of their success: This Life in the nineties being one that springs to mind. They also suspended their most popular radio and TV presenter for six months without a thought to ratings. It may not be something that you believe. It's definitely not something I can prove but whatever happened to mature discussion of points without becoming insulting?

    Wasn't insulting. Merely using hyperbole so say how unrealistic I find the concept. A cash strapped organization cancelling something that makes them a LOT of money. (Not to mention people I know, who would know the truth and whose information I trust completely telling me that there was no way that "New" Doctor Who has every been remotely threatened with being cancelled, and is in no danger of cancellation in the forseeable future either)

    The situations you cite - especially regarding the presenters is a TOTALLY different situation. That was 1000% a PR-related move and one the BBC had very little choice but to make.

    The BBC has become a very trouble organization, but they are also more PR savvy and different from the 1989 organization that cancelled Doctor Who. They know to cancel it now would be a very very dumb move.

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 11:06 AM EDT
    @Chase - No, I don't have rose-coloured glasses. I really enjoyed Planet of the Dead and Tennant's performance - if you are bored by him, I don;t feel you are paying enough attention. Watch his reaction during the "four knocks" speech section, and his eyes as he releases Lady Christina, and watch his brain working when they are talking to the insect-creatures and working out what's going on. There is some very intelligent acting going on there. Its very subtle - unlike Tom Baker most of the time. But for me its very interesting and very watchable. Was Planet of the Dead all-time classic Who? Or the best ever? No, of course not. But it was a fun romp and a very enjoyable hour of television. And exactly what was needed for the Easter Special, when there won't be anything new for another 6 months!

    I think you are holding the show up to too high a standard. This really is quality TV. Compare it to Primeval (which you have stated to be "a better show" so by extension you think it *is* quality), the dialog of which is drivel (and soooo wants to be Doctor Who - closing the anomalies by "reversing the polarity" - hmmmmm), it only has one plot and is totally by the numbers. Talk about predictable - I know every week the creature will end up back in the anomaly which will then close. Hmmmmm....Very surprising. (Its no conicidence, I think that the 2 best episodes were written by Paul Cornell and James Moran, who got to work on Doctor Who and probably learned some TV writing tips from Russell in the process).

    But back to Who. It doesn't always have to be new and different. Was Season 13 (one of the best seasons in the history of Doctor Who, I think!) completely new and different? Let's take a look:

    TERROR OF THE ZYGONS - Ok, so the alien is new and different. But basically its a UNIT story. And its on Earth
    PLANET OF EVIL - Doctor Who does Jekyll and Hyde?
    PYRAMIDS OF MARS - Isn't this rather like "The Mummy"? And its another story set in the past with an alien. Hmmm..we saw this in THE TIME WARRIOR just a couple of seasons ago. By Robert Holmes too. He's obviously tired of the show, doing the same tricks again and needs some new ideas.
    THE ANDROID INVASION - Earth's under threat. Again. And UNIT. Boring. And you bring back Harry Sullivan. What happened to new characters? Bring on some new ideas.
    THE BRAIN OF MORBIUS - More gothic horror? Didn't we just have a story like this? They've done Jekyll and Hyde this year, and the Mummy, and now Frankenstein? What happened to new ideas?
    THE SEEDS OF DOOM - Boring. Giant plants again - a sci-fi constant. And back on Earth. Again?

    Did that sound familiar? To me it sounds a lot like you. Wink

    And I have no clue what the "Alex Rider" books are. They look rather like teenage adventure stories from my brief googling of the name. I can't imagine the writing is better than Russell's and the plots more internally consistent. PLANET OF THE DEAD was consistent. It worked. And not only that, it put in some real science (The Faraday Cage)! Sydney Newman would have been so proud! I'm sorry you can't see that - and all you want to do is for us to be impressed that you knew the insect people were going to get eaten!

    (Quick disclaimer: For the record, while those claims can be made about Season 13, I am making them in jest. Robert Holmes is fantastic as is almost all of Season 13!!!!)

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 11:13 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  barnabeee]
    Wasn't insulting. Merely using hyperbole so say how unrealistic I find the concept. A cash strapped organization cancelling something that makes them a LOT of money. (Not to mention people I know, who would know the truth and whose information I trust completely telling me that there was no way that "New" Doctor Who has every been remotely threatened with being cancelled, and is in no danger of cancellation in the forseeable future either)

    The situations you cite - especially regarding the presenters is a TOTALLY different situation. That was 1000% a PR-related move and one the BBC had very little choice but to make.

    The BBC has become a very trouble organization, but they are also more PR savvy and different from the 1989 organization that cancelled Doctor Who. They know to cancel it now would be a very very dumb move.

    Hyperbole can be as pejorative as any type of language.
    There was a lot of speculation about whether or not DW would finish after RTD left. I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth but I don't find it as imposssible a concept to believe as you do. I do agree that it would be a very dumb move but there are dumb people in every walk of life. I'm glad, of course, that we are continuing with Mr. Moffat and my original point, I think, way back was that it is the work that the current production team have done which has ensured the continuation of the series.

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 12:06 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Idiom]
    Hyperbole can be as pejorative as any type of language.

    Fair enough! We shall agree to disagree. (I stil don't believe it for a moment - I suspect it was just Ian Levine's fear of an 80's redux! But 'nuff said!)

    And don't think for an instance that I don't give the current production team full credit though. Am as a pro-RTD as they come, and his approach works for me! Brilliantly! He's made Doctor Who popular and relevant. And fantastic!

    I'm looking forward to Moffat's approach too (which I don't expect to be *that* different). But time will tell and we can discuss this time next year after experiencing it. Gosh that seems too far away. Good thing there's 3 hours of Tennant left to enjoy first! Smile

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 12:08 PM EDT
    I don't find anything subtle about Tennant at all so we just have to disagree. Chris Ecc yeah, subtle some of the time. Yes, most of the season 13 stories ARE derivative and somehow they managed to get something original and different from them: Sutek is just a great villian and presense: Can you say the same for the Fly Monsters or the flying things in PLANET OF THE DEAD.

    Yeah I look at DW crtically. Yes, PRIMEVAL was better but I should have clarified, IN SEASON ONE. I'm not a big fan of season two for the most part. Season 1 of PRIMEVAL beats out a lot of DW (just fil in all the stories I mentioned that totally suck: DALEKS IN MANHATTAN, JOURNEY'S END, NEXT DOCTOR). Like classic WHO, PRIMEVAL in season one, took old sci fi concepts and did somthing clever and modern with them with a lot of action that made sense.

    Did anyone think the bus ride was action or the Doctor and Christina running from...a swarm that was miles off was action?

    As for Alex Rider: they're written for a different audience, MAYBE. They are internally consistent (I woudn't expect a character to, well such as Capt Jack become the Face of Boe or anything so stupid), logical, and action oriented. We wouldn't see a big red button above a security thing. The writr of Alex Rider books has written, maybe all of FOYLE'S WAR and other TV things. So he has good track record, not that Im comparing everything he does to everything RTD does, I like them both, both have their greats and both have their failures.

    That said, PLANE OF THE's bad story telling. CHristina makes a dive and we don't know what the danger to her is. THe Doctor just screams, "Christina!" and runs. So we're supposed to just understand that the all powerful Doctgor knows it's a bad thing for her to make a dive. Alfred Hitchcock always said that you need to have some sense of urgency shown visually. Here we just see the idiot Doctor running and we're supposed to know he's always right...David's running on past record here in acting too --did anyone believe him when he asked the Fly THings to come with him? Anyway, bad story telling: we don't see the security thing until after the danger is supposed to excite us. Then there's the logic of it: a secuity device there with a big red button to stop it there? Never happen in an Alex Rider book.

    Anyway I do look at DW critically and perhaps too much so. I love the idea of a time traveler and the Doctor and the TARDIS. How often the show actually lives up to its own premse is anther thing--the new show almost always did and bar the items I've mentioned far too many times in the past, it had. There's far too many so so stories lately.

    I do hold it up to a higher realm of crictism than other shows.

    POD: I didn't quite like it, I liked it AND that was me trying to be positive. It wasn't sucky but then as I've said my expectations were low low low so...they were met.

    I DID mention the postives but...but, something is still missing. Originality, depth, good action, acting, a sense of urgency, a reason for the story being told to be told....

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 12:44 PM EDT
    Gonna side with Darko here! Everything you have said would lead me to think that you would score PLANET OF THE DEAD at 2/10. I'd like to hear more of the positives. (Oh, and comparing Sutekh with the fly people or the swarm, is like comparing him to the Krynoids. They are not the same thing and its a completely invalid comparison, which just weakens your argument. The Krynoids and the Swarm are comparable, and do much to same thing. Sutekh does not.)

    PRIMEVAL series 1 was just as dreadful as everything since, and is in no way better than any Doctor Who, IMO. I can't comment on the Alex Rider books - but surely you realize that the "Big Red Button" is a device to enable the story to take 60 minutes, rather than the extra time a book can take. And of course its gag dating back to THE CHRISTMAS INVASION. The audience of 40-odd Doctor Who fans I had the pleasure of watching this Special with all laughed at that moment - so I think it worked! Smile

    It takes a lot of work to make Doctor Who as popular as it is today. Don't underestimate that. RTD knows the audience and the audience is enjoying it. As Igor Stravinsky said - "I am sorry but I claim that in the aria LA DONNA E MOBILE, for instance, there is more substance and more true invention than in the rhetoric verbosity of {Wagner's RING}." I will let you fill in the gaps - but LA DONNA E MOBILE could eaily be replaced with THE STOLEN EARTH/JOURNEY'S END and the RING with SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY/FOREST OF THE DEAD Smile
    Neither are bad (in my opinion, or in the opionion of 8-10 million or so people who keep watching!), but they are different and each take a particular type of skill.

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 07:48 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Chase] Okay, I donít know what to make of that. It certainly wasnít as bad as NEXT DOCTOR and had pace, action, and some good character stuff.

    That's it, that is the only thing I could find that you have said about the episode that is positive and then you spend your next three posts tearing it apart and yet again repeating yourself about how you want RTD to go etc etc. Those two lines, in my opinion do not show a balanced review and do not seem to justify your 6/10 or 7/10 scoreline (which makes the episode, in your opinion, BETTER THAN AVERAGE!!!). That is where you do begin to lose some credibility with your reviews. They are not balanced at all. You seem to take delight (or rather, you seem to delight in your own outrage) in picking out the negatives and not counterpointing it with the positives. So once again, I challenge you to write a paragraph justifying the score you gave it. 1 paragraph of positives... Go on, you might find it liberating!!! Razz

    One final word (and this is NOT to be taken as a personal insult, just an observation). I said before that your posts were never boring. I am beginning to change my mind on this point. You do have a tendancy of repeating yourself. We understand that you are looking forward to RTD leaving and we know that you enjoyed "Girl In The Fireplace", "Doomsday", "Fires Of Pompeii" but dislike "The Sound of Drums", "The Last Of The Timelords" and most of season 4 etc. We really don't need to read it all again. Of course you can repeat yourself ad nauseum if you want, it's totally up to you. Think of this as constructive criticism!

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 08:35 PM EDT
    I thought I would also take this opportunity to tell you my views of Planet Of The Dead after having viewed it only once. It normally takes a few viewings for me to decide what I think of an episode but I will give my first impressions.

    I was not particularly looking forward to this episode. I don't know why, maybe it is because I have not tended to enjoy the Specials as much as I do a full series. The week before it aired I had rewatched "The Next Doctor" and had not enjoyed that as much as I had at Christmas (when I had thought it was the best special to date but still nowhere close to the best episodes in a full season).
    Also, the trailer just didn't get my heart pumping... It looked okay but that was all.
    Maybe it is because of this that I enjoyed the episode far more than I expected. I enjoyed Michelle Ryan's performance despite the fact that she was basically playing a Lara Croft rip off (which is not necessarily a bad thing). It zipped along at a cracking pace and David Tennant was his usual brilliant self. That said, there are signs that his character is starting to become repetitive. As mentioned elsewhere, variations of his whole "Where were you going" speech has been performed by Tennant quite a few times and whereas before it brought a smile to my face and a slight tingle down the spine, this time the words "seen this before" did enter my head. I didn't have a problem with it but it was a reminder of why neither Actor playing The Doctor or the Showrunner should stay much longer than 3 or 4 years.
    I was also pleasantly surprised by Lee Evans. I am not a big fan of his comedy but I enjoyed his performance here and his interaction with Tennant was filled with joy and a joy to behold!
    I wasn't too impressed with the "flies" (the name of their race eludes me at the moment but ask me in a years time and it will be in my little brain). They served their purpose but I am just a little bit fed up with the whole "Animals made large" idea for creating a new alien. I did like the way that we couldn't understand them due to the fact of the TARDIS not being there to translate.

    I enjoy continuity and I loved the hints of what is to come. It seemed to me that UNIT knows how The Doctor is going to regenerate. The woman from "Turn Left" (ask me in a year Oops! ) talks about how when UNIT next meets The Doctor "you know what that'll mean" or words to that effect. I also like the "Your Song is coming to an end" and "He will knock four times" hints. It adds a little depth to these specials and subtly adds picture to the larger canvas.
    The effects were up to par (barring acouple of flying bus shots), the swarm were okay... Made a nice change from an Alien race trying to take over the World just for conquest but they did remind me of The Nasta Verada a bit... only these are very visible and definately come out in the light.

    Overall, this was an enjoyable episode and was the romp that RTD promised, nothing more and nothing less. We have been promised that things are going to get darker in Tennants last episodes and I look forward to that. A bit more substance would also be nice as that does seem to be what is lacking from the specials. That said, it seems like the last three episodes are going to be airing close to each other and so will hopefully act like a mini-season.
    I look forward to the return of "The Master", assuming he does return, as I like the episodes he featured in a lot (although I was not that keen on how his character had changed to be an Anti-Doctor, but I have gotten used to that on multiple viewings). I hope that the rumours of Rose returning are not true but am keen on seeing Donna and Wilf return.
    I just hope the next seven months roll very quickly!

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     Tuesday, April 14 2009 @ 08:39 PM EDT
    If you don't like it anymore, don't watch it.

    I on the other hand loved it a lot, it hit all the right red buttons for me and I had fun while I was watching it and isn't that the main thing, it did what this story was designed to, it was fun... I give this a 4 out of 5

    I never see the need to pick a story to pieces, if I enjoyed it... was is the point.

    Anyway, at least reading this thread has given me lots of ideas of stuff to talk about when I record my commentary for my podcast in a few days ^_^

    bye bye david :(
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     Wednesday, April 15 2009 @ 12:59 AM EDT
    I highly reccommend listening to the commentary for the episode. It brings to light a few thing I didn't notice at first.

    You can get it through iTunes as a podcast (at least in the US version). Hope it's available to the country you're in. On the US version it's listed as "Doctor Who: The Comentaries" if you can't find it that way try searching "BBC 7"

    I just realized something about Carmen's prophecy - she spoke of the Doctor's song and now I'm thinking of the 4th series episode "The Planet of The Ood" and they talked of the Doctor's song there. Could it be a another reference to earlier story. There were several obvious ones, maybe this one was more subtle.

    "Make your last move, Doctor. Make your LAST move." The Celestial Toymaker to the Doctor in "The Celestial Toymaker: The Final Test"
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     Wednesday, April 15 2009 @ 08:23 AM EDT

    Started well - looked great - didn't like the main part with too many solutions provided by the companions bag or with their talents.

    He's a good roundup of the episode:-

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Wednesday, April 15 2009 @ 08:42 AM EDT
    Did anyone notice the lack of TARDIS interior scenes? I wonder if we will see any in The Water of Mars special this November. Makes me think the production team has already dismantled the current one. I do remember reading that Tennant's console would not hold up to HD scrutiny.

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     Wednesday, April 15 2009 @ 09:28 AM EDT
    I have a feeling we won't see any interior Tardis for the reminder of Tennant's time... which makes me slighty sad Frown
    but thrilled at the same time that David Morrissey's Jackson Lake was the last person other than the Doctor to be filmed and seen in that set. ^^

    bye bye david :(
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     Wednesday, April 15 2009 @ 09:33 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  romana_II]
    I never see the need to pick a story to pieces, if I enjoyed it... was is the point.

    Exactly! Smile

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