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seanhuxter
Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 825
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 Tuesday, February 06 2007 @ 07:54 AM EST |
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Thanks for posting that link, Darth. It was a good read.
I posted a comment, which read:
Great essay on "Love and Monsters".
Most people don't see this, but if you take everything you see on Elton's web cam at face value, but anything else as a fantasy within his own mind, twisted by his childhood history and his recent experiences, you find that we have a very disturbed character, with serious delusions.
We can't take anything that he narrates at face value. It's all colored by his mental instability. We CAN take at face value only the footage from his web cam.
So at the end when we see the paving slab, we only see Ursula's face as a cut-away from the web-cam, in other words, we're seeing only what Elton is seeing with his twisted (some say completely broken) mind. The web cam is NEVER shown her face.
I think the show would have been even better (and that's difficult) only if the web cam had caught a tiny, tiny glimpse of the face of the slab, and what was there was a brief glimpse of a chalk drawing of a face with glasses.
The entire point of the story would have been more obvious then, and while that would be applying the metaphorical sledgehammer, a lot of fans of this show apparently needed that sledgehammer to get the point of this episode.
Marlowe
That's no dig at you, Louis, as I know your reasons for not liking it, and they are, unlike the knee-jerk general over-reaction by fans to the show, well thought-out.
Sean.
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One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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merlin_mccarley
Registered: 07/30/06
Posts: 733
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| Tuesday, February 06 2007 @ 07:53 PM EST |
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What facinates me the most is that, while not loved by many. The levels of dislike on this one have kept this the highest posted itme on the forums. This is post 136 for "Love and Monsters" in this thread. I personally liked it more than "The Idiot's Lantern" mainly beacuse the pacing in lantern seemed bad to me. The storys need to move at a pace that allows for the fact that these are 45 min episodes. Lantern seemed very rushed and didn't work as well as L&M for me. Must admit that it has at least caused a lot of discussion.
Cheers,
Mike M. |
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I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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tarashnat
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 3062
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| Wednesday, June 20 2007 @ 03:53 PM EDT |
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Well, just to tease Merlin, and to mention that we had the first direct reference to Mister Saxon in this episode. |
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Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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MikeD
Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 403
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| Wednesday, June 20 2007 @ 04:43 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: merlin_mccarley] What facinates me the most is that, while not loved by many. The levels of dislike on this one have kept this the highest posted itme on the forums. This is post 136 for "Love and Monsters" in this thread. I personally liked it more than "The Idiot's Lantern" mainly beacuse the pacing in lantern seemed bad to me. The storys need to move at a pace that allows for the fact that these are 45 min episodes. Lantern seemed very rushed and didn't work as well as L&M for me. Must admit that it has at least caused a lot of discussion.
Cheers,
Mike M. |
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That's the thing, it *is* loved by many. It also happens to be hate by many. It's a misconception to think that the episode is an unpopular one. In the DWM survey of the 2006 series they said that L&M received as many first place votes as last place ones.
Over at doctorwhoblog.com the episode generated the most discussion of any episode of the series when it was aired by CBC.
Love & Monsters is divisive, not unpopular and that makes for good discussion.
Mike |
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"There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be fought."
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capricorn1
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 395
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| Thursday, July 31 2008 @ 09:37 AM EDT |
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Time to bring this thread back from the dead.
Well, having become more involved in fandom over the last few years, rather than just being a fan, for some reason I felt compelled to try watching this again:-
[Quote by: DarthSkeptical]
It would not surprise me at all if people who initially disliked this episode later discover that, actually, it's Just short of brilliant. |
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Darth said this right after the episode was originally aired and... he was spot on! I hated this episode originally but on rewatching, some time after the original event, I now get it. Not only that, but I actually enjoyed it.
I'd urge all of the original 'haters' (even you Louis) to rewatch this episode through a fresh set of eyes and with an open mind.
Given that this a such a polarising episode in fandom maybe it should be the subject on a live Podcast in it's own right... Hell, even I'd try to dial in to this. |
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Tin-Dog-Podcast
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 599
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| Thursday, July 31 2008 @ 10:29 AM EDT |
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I just cant do Love and Monsters.
I can see what its trying to do. I was prepared to love it but I just cant. There are some great actors in it.. parts of it are very good. SMALL parts. I adore ELO and the music is used wonderfuly. BUT Peter Kay is AWFUL. The Monster is just....
see ive lost the will to go on.
its all so very wrong...
Oh and what was that about british comedy? I didnt laugh once. I did sob. |
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Guest Host on the WHOCAST
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Idiom
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 722
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| Thursday, July 31 2008 @ 12:26 PM EDT |
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I'm in the pro camp, I have to say. When I first watched it, there was just one aspect that I didn't like and that was simply down to the fact that the Doctor wasn't in it. And let's face it, that's really why we love the programme isn't it. If they made a series called Elton, many of us would prbably soon lose interest and well, we wouldn't love it, would we? But, having said that, it was just one episode and it was one episode that tried to be different. And for that, often I will forgive a lot.
It was sort of post-modern, which appeals to my tastes and a reflection of how so many diverse people can come together in the name of the Doctor. I liked Elton, at least what we saw in forty odd minutes and he showed us the part of the Doctor that RTD has been very interested in investigating over the last four years - the pain and destruction that exist in his wake. Even if it is all done for the right reasons, still many people seem to suffer when their paths cross the Doctor's. The road to Hell indeed...
I liked the humour and the very British almost carry onfeel to it. It is an episode that tries to flesh out the universe in which the Doctor exists - make it more three-dimensional, give it a life of its own.
Yeah, it sort of worked for me and I've seen it a few times since it was last broadcast. It wasn't the best episode or even the best doctor-lite episode. But at least it wasn't boring.
Need I mention Fear Her. Oooh, don't get me started. Now there's an episode that really does deserve its criticism in my opinion. |
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Idiom
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 722
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| Thursday, July 31 2008 @ 12:41 PM EDT |
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| Also, I'm not really sure where this conviction that Ursula's face on the slab is not real comes from when nobody questions another character absorbed into Peter Kaye's backside! |
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daveac
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2636
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| Thursday, July 31 2008 @ 07:19 PM EDT |
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| [Quote by: Idiom] Also, I'm not really sure where this conviction that Ursula's face on the slab is not real comes from when nobody questions another character absorbed into Peter Kaye's backside! |
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But if the slab had shown a 'chalked face' then everything else could have been taken as a 'miss-guided fans' take on 'Dr Who'
So yes - 'almost great' applies from my point of view.
Cheers, daveac |
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daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP,
cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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Smitty
Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 477
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| Thursday, July 31 2008 @ 07:42 PM EDT |
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To my man D-Skep.
Just watched it again, bit and pieces okay but as a whole still comes up short in comparison to Blink and Turn Left.
It's like a supreme pizza, like the crust and the sausage and cheese but I'm picking off the black olives, peppers and onions and tossing them aside.
-cs™ |
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http://twitter.com/Smittmaestro
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BongMong
Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 46
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| Friday, August 01 2008 @ 08:38 AM EDT |
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I loved it. It's one of my favorite nuwave Who episodes. It compares well to the Torchwood Light episode (I forget the name) where the chap dies but hangs around like a ghost, trying to work out what happened. It's all seen through new character eyes.
LINDA was mentioned in the recent Comic Relief two doctors sketch.
I would love to see Elton pull LINDA back together (with different characters, obviously, since an alien's bum is hard to act long term...). Then we can have a return of LINDA in an episode. Bring Back LINDA! |
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--
BongMong :)~
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Idiom
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 722
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| Friday, August 01 2008 @ 01:38 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: daveac] But if the slab had shown a 'chalked face' then everything else could have been taken as a 'miss-guided fans' take on 'Dr Who'
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I know what you're saying Dave. But for me that would fall into the "...and everything was a dream" cop-out that we have never had in Doctor Who. I was happy to accept the event as real within the universe that they occur.
Having said that, this need for many to have this 'way out' of the story to make it acceptable does mean that for many it was misjudged. Just not for me... |
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Smitty
Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 477
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| Sunday, August 03 2008 @ 01:56 PM EDT |
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http://twitter.com/Smittmaestro
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Justice
Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 520
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| Sunday, August 03 2008 @ 05:00 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Tin-Dog-Podcast]
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"coming this summer.......
i married a peace of concrete!
there love defied logic!" |
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"Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth."
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Monday, August 04 2008 @ 05:51 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: Idiom] [Quote by: daveac] But if the slab had shown a 'chalked face' then everything else could have been taken as a 'miss-guided fans' take on 'Dr Who'
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I know what you're saying Dave. But for me that would fall into the "...and everything was a dream" cop-out that we have never had in Doctor Who. |
| | Apparently, you were lucky enough to have missed the whole of Season 23. The Trial of a Time Lord was largely a dream. The problem is, though, we don't know which parts were real and which the creations of the Valeyard. |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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