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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  Love and Monsters
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    Love and Monsters Views: 13812
     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 11:44 AM EDT
    Long time listener, but 1st post in the forums...

    Right off the bat, I'll say that I give this 1/5 TARDIS groans. It was really tough to hold my attention throughout the episode. I caught myself, more than once, checking the amount of time remaining in the episode until it was over. This immediately reminded me of many of the poorer stories from the C. Baker/McCoy era of Who.

    Weak plot, not much screen time for The Doctor (a la Christmas Invasion), un-interesting/un-original villian (Am I the only one who originally thought of Fat Bastard from Austin Powers?)

    HOWEVER, that being said, I'm willing to give it a pass on a suspicion I have. I think the light-hearted tone that this story presented was meant as a set-up as we approach the final 3 episodes of the season.

    *SPOILERS*

    As has seemingly been confirmed over the last few days, we know that Billie Piper will be leaving at the end of series 2. Whether or not Rose will be killed or written off some other way, I do not know (and I choose not to know until it airs...I accidentally read that she's leaving, but stopped there in case her fate was mentioned). By setting us up with this happy, silly episode, I think that it will increase the emotional reaction we get when we see her fate revealed at the end of this season.

    *END SPOILERS*

    Or maybe it doesn't mean anything, and this was just a crappy episode...I like the concept of a seeing people dealing with the side-effects of people's encounters with the Doctor, but I think Louis made a good suggestion that this should have been a special or a one-of type program. It was also a tough act to follow because of the last 2 episodes. I really, really enjoyed Impossible Planet/Satan Pit.

    I admit that when I was watching the series 1 epidodes for the first time, I thought most of them were fantastic and my initial reaction was 5/5 for them all. Then a few days would go by and I could think about it more and more, and a lot of them have settled into the 3/3.5 range. After this one, my initial reaction was 1/5, and I think that's being generous. I almost feel as though it would have been better if they shortened this series' broadcast length by one episode and hadn't shown this one at all. I hope that a few years from now we don't look back on this episode as where Doctor Who jumped the shark.


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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 11:55 AM EDT
    I am not sure about this, but I get the feeling that the opinions about Love and Monsters are dividing along Nationalistic lines. i.e. the British (like me) enjoyed it and the American's didn't.

    Other opinions may fall along Commonwealth lines (I know Sean Huxter is Canadian). What about Antipodeans and other ex-members of the Empire?
    It's hard to tell as it is hard to tell people's Nationality from there current location.

    Anyway, this episode appeals to the quirky British sense of fun/humour, debate and discuss!

    In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are Kings
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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 01:10 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Doctor Whoovie] Well, I thought this was really excellent. A brave, and fairly radical departure. A good amount of humour and Moaning Myrtle thrown in for good measure

    I was trying to remember where I had seen her before..
    [Quote 
    (though watching this with my kids, I could have done without the oral sex reference at the end).
    I doubt most kids would get it. Anyway, IMHO, her flirting with Daniel Radcliffe is a lot more disturbing.
    [Quote 
    Note the absorption concept with the faces talking out the side of Peter Kay really disturbed my 11 year old son.

    Even/especially though the designer was around the same age

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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 02:15 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Doctor Whoovie] I am not sure about this, but I get the feeling that the opinions about Love and Monsters are dividing along Nationalistic lines. i.e. the British (like me) enjoyed it and the American's didn't.


    There might be something to this, then again there might not. I'm a taff, and I loved it, and thought it was laugh-out-loud funny. 'Er indoors (English) thought it was one of the best of this series. She hated Impossible Planet / Satan Pit because she felt it was too "American" and tried to rip off (sorry, pay homage to) Event Horizon etc. Me personally, I've loved every episode this series. I was worried about the format of this episode before it aired, and then watched it three times over the weekend because I liked it so much. It's showing again as we speak on BBC3, but she-who-must-be-obeyed has threatened violence if I watch it again.

    Excallibur? Blizard? ...Bikini Cops?
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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 05:19 PM EDT
    I really disliked it on the first viewing but found it got better on Sunday nights repeat. I guess I was slightly more accustomed to the bad bits, which allowed me to ignore them more. I personally love british humour but Peter Kay for the most part was just too 'knowing' in his delivery, and the whole thing just felt cheap. Nice to have some ELO, and I thought the rest of the cast were excellent. Miles better than Delta and the Bannermen. Wink

    Ah well, onwards to the season finale I guess

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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 06:23 PM EDT
    And another thing I liked about this episode. It's the only episode so far to even mention Mickey's passing. One of the thing that I reallllllly disliked about "The Idiot's Lantern" is that it makes absolutely no effort to fit into the season as it's developed. Even the glorious Satan duology, which presented plenty of excellent opportunities for the Doctor and Rose to reflect on the dearly departed, totally avoided the subject of Mickey. It really makes Rose look like a horrible person. But here, finally, there's a reasonable acknowledgment that Mickey's gone. How delightfully ironic (and sweet) that it comes from the one person most hostile to Mickey at the outset of Series 1.

    I swear to God I love Jackie in this episode and, for that matter, her gradual development from "Rose" to now.


    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 06:35 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] And another thing I liked about this episode. It's the only episode so far to even mention Mickey's passing. One of the thing that I reallllllly disliked about "The Idiot's Lantern" is that it makes absolutely no effort to fit into the season as it's developed. Even the glorious Satan duology, which presented plenty of excellent opportunities for the Doctor and Rose to reflect on the dearly departed, totally avoided the subject of Mickey. It really makes Rose look like a horrible person. But here, finally, there's a reasonable acknowledgment that Mickey's gone. How delightfully ironic (and sweet) that it comes from the one person most hostile to Mickey at the outset of Series 1.


    But Mickey isn't really dead. Why should Rose mourn his "passing"?

    Facebook me! http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=583224917
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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 06:54 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  joereform] But Mickey isn't really dead. Why should Rose mourn his "passing"?
    Well, she was bawlin' like a baby when they parted ways. How she goes from that to boppin' around lookin' for Elvis just doesn't feel right.

    For all intents and purposes, Mickey did die. He's staying behind in a very dangerous situation with no hope of rescue. Emotionally, that's the same thing as death. It just makes no sense to me that we're getting no "after-effects" from Rose on that. I mean, hell, we got mourning from Hartnell and company in "The Rescue" over Susan, who was left behind in a remarkably similar situation. And she wasn't dead or even in an inaccessible alternate universe.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 07:04 PM EDT
    Well you could argue that loss makes people act weird. You could also argue that the episodes were filmed out of sequence with Billie having no clue that this episode would be screened immediately after the departure of her character's onscreen ex. Let's face it Rose hasn't exactly been consistent in her feelings for Mickey this season (as was demonstrated by her and Mickey being thick as thieves in The Girl in the Fireplace, after Rose was so visibly against Mickey tagging along at the end of School Reunion).

    But since Mickey left without actually dying, Rose could just as easily reconcile that in the same way that you would for a friend who emigrates to the other side of the world. You can have been very close to someone and miss them dearly but knowing that they're still alive - even though you know you will probably never see them again - stops you from bursting into tears or moping around.

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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 07:09 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] And another thing I liked about this episode. It's the only episode so far to even mention Mickey's passing. One of the thing that I reallllllly disliked about "The Idiot's Lantern" is that it makes absolutely no effort to fit into the season as it's developed. Even the glorious Satan duology, which presented plenty of excellent opportunities for the Doctor and Rose to reflect on the dearly departed, totally avoided the subject of Mickey. It really makes Rose look like a horrible person. But here, finally, there's a reasonable acknowledgment that Mickey's gone. How delightfully ironic (and sweet) that it comes from the one person most hostile to Mickey at the outset of Series 1.

    I swear to God I love Jackie in this episode and, for that matter, her gradual development from "Rose" to now.



    As a matter of course is it generally accepted that episodes/storys in Doctor Who occur in sequential order for the participants? Obviously, this doesn't happen in the Big Finish adventures, or in specials such as the three/five/two Doctors. This series indicates other events occur outside the documented adventures, i.e. Rose and the Doctor reminising in front of Mickey, visiting Elton's house (which obviously happened for the Tenth Doctor before the Love and Monsters occurs). Does the Scooby Doo chase happen before or after the Doctor and Rose meet Elton with the PeterKayAloff? So could the Idiot Lantern occur before Mickey has joined the TARDIS crew or a very long time after he was left behind? The interval between episodes is often left ambiguous, and obvioulsy the other undocumented adventures happen in these intervals.

    Another separate question is how did the Doctor and Rose find the Absorbaloff? Track Eltons cellphone from a number given by Jackie?

    In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are Kings
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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 08:04 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Doctor Whoovie] Another separate question is how did the Doctor and Rose find the Absorbaloff? Track Eltons cellphone from a number given by Jackie?


    I'd go for your explanation. Remember they weren't looking for the Absorbaloff. Rose was looking for Elton to give him a piece of her mind for upsetting her mum (and I daresay to find out just why he was looking for her). Tracking his mobile phone seems the most plausible explanation.

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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 08:43 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Abersoch] Well you could argue that loss makes people act weird. You could also argue that the episodes were filmed out of sequence with Billie having no clue that this episode would be screened immediately after the departure of her character's onscreen ex. ....


    In fact, the latest Doctor Who: Confidential reveals that this episode, Scooby Who, Wink err... I mean Love and Monsters was shot "double-backed" with The Impossible Planet and/or The Satan Pit (the were shot at the same time overlapping each -- hence the absence of Billy Piper and David Tennant in this farce).

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 10:44 PM EDT
    It was a very offbeat episode, but unlike a lot of posters I didn't mind it at all. In fact I gave it four TARDIS groans. I have been able to just go with the flow and enjoy the episodes without expectations.

    Not the kind of episode I want to see a lot of, but as a one-off experimental story it was fine to me.

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     Monday, June 19 2006 @ 11:25 PM EDT
    Why was this episode bad?

    Because it didn’t really have much to do with Doctor Who. You could have replaced the Dr. in this one with just about any character, and the story would not have changed much. If that is the case, what is the point of making it a Dr. Who episode?

    I tune in to see a smart show with some sci/fi adventure, revolving around time and space travel. This had none of those elements, a person remembering events from his past, and noticing someone who “hasn’t changed a bit” does not count as time travel in my book.

    So many lost opportunities.

    In series 1, if you did a web search on “Doctor” and “Blue Box” you found info relating to the previous Doctor. I know Mickey whipped it all out, but I didn’t think he wiped people’s memories.

    So they link the Doctor to Rose, and the Blue Box, but no one remembers seeing Rose on the news, marching into #10 after a spaceship lands in the middle of London?

    Does anyone think it would have been better if they crossed paths with people following the Doctor in his other incarnation? Maybe the doctor could have saved them from the alien in a way only he could, and turn them from thinking he is the one causing the trouble, to thinking he is the one saving them from trouble. He could then maybe have a small group of humans he could count on for help, they could rotate into the series, and he could stop over for tea on one of his many visits to Earth.

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     Tuesday, June 20 2006 @ 01:38 AM EDT

    Remember, Torchwood was tasked with dealing with the 10th Doctor. They are laying low until he makes an appearance. Kennedy/Abzorbaloff gets his main info from Torchwood.

    I tend to think that all the embellishments in this episode are due to Elton's memory/perspective. That Scooby Doo chase sequence appears like that because that is how Elton believes he remembered seeing it. I have already stated my thoughts on the paving stone above... probably more than once!

    I think this was good for a bottle episode, and is at worst an average story. That does make it the weakest story of the series, though. I just thought it was great fun.

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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