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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  Army Of Ghosts!
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    Army Of Ghosts! Views: 8244
     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 05:12 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Abersoch] I suppose it would be possible for the Daleks to invent a ship that travelled to the alternate Earth and helped create an environment for the Cybermen, but for that to happen suggests that their plan all along has been to bring the Cybermen to this Earth and that sounds like an awfully long-winded way of trying to conquer Earth. Therefore I don't think that was the plan.

    What we have seen suggests the Daleks arrival attracted the attention of Torchwood, who decided to meddle with the fabric of space/time and this attracted the interest of the Cybermen who were looking for a way off alternate-Earth.

    As for Rose dying....well, I am almost 50/50 as to whether she does or not but I'm currently learning towards the NOT. I've totted up my reasons for as to why each fate might occur, as follows:

    1.) Why Rose might die
    - would be a really dramatic ending
    - could (debatably) be the last thing viewers would expect (a la Christopher Eccleston regeneration in series one - well it would have been if all had gone to plan)
    - the Beast suggested she would die valiantly in battle

    2.) Why Rose won't die
    - the beast could have been lying. He is evil for Christssake!
    - it would permanently close the door on established history of the show that the newer viewers can relate to. Lots of kids relate much more closely to the assistant than the Doctor.
    - rules out any possible future meeting with Sarah Jane Smith. That "find me, if you ever need to" line is just too tempting a door to leave open.
    - it's a family show. Would they really want to upset the kiddies?
    - they have already ended a series by getting rid of a character (ie Christopher Eccleston) and don't want to look like they can't think of a different series finale.
    - there is just too much potential invested in Rose and her family/friends to drop them all just like that. It would be like having an episode of Blakes 7 and killing off half of the main....erm.....ok that's a bad example, but you get my meaning.

    I think [SPOILER for those who avoided the "next week" bit] the return of Peter and the chance to fix everything with her family [/spoiler] will prove too much of a temptation for her. Potentially she has a lot to live for.

    That's my thoughts on the matter, at any rate.

    Abersoch

    P.S. Liked the faschist Torchwood. Reminded me a bit of the Big Finish episode Jubilee where Britain was a faschist state that had subjugated the US. Rose walking around in a scientist's jacket in the laboratory corridor reminded me of BF's Harvest, where the 7th Doctor and Ace are investigating a hospital and....ooops, better not say any more.


    I see where you are coming from Abersoch but I'm having an inkling. Given the rise of Torchwood (both the TV series and the organisation) and my gut feeling that the Doctor will not be responsible for earths salvation next week (Humanity will save itself)it is possible that the Doctor might be leaving earth for a while. Its just a guess mind, but we have had two very earth-centric series and one way our another the character that grounded us to earth will be gone.

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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 05:49 PM EDT
    Before reading, I'm assuming you've seen this episode!

    I've thought about this a lot and considering Rose is narrating at the beginning of the episodes tell us how she dies then I suspect she hasn't! Maybe we'll see some shifting between Earth's and The Doctor manages to close all the rifts but has to do it while Rose is still on the alternative Earth. This time he does it properly hence we won't see Rose again but it does also leave it open for Rose to re-appear?

    Also, I thought Confidential seemed to spend rather a lot of time on Captain Jack, I wonder if he'll make a surprise appearance next week?

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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 05:51 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Doctor Slug]
    While i think about the clip last weeks fear her clip for this weeks episode didnt have all stuff shown so some that was for both finale episodes.

    There are several scenes involving energy weapons fire outside.
    Some soldiers and vehicles on a bridge apparently being fired on by Cybermen.
    Two Cybermen being shot at by something which looked similar to the Cybermen's except blue.
    Someone shot by a Dalek weapon

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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 06:40 PM EDT
    I have heard from various sources, that Doomsday will have a pretty good cliffhanger....Something to make us look forward to the next Christmas special.

    I'm wondering if maybe we are looking at things from the wrong perspective.
    Torchwood was originally planned to counter the Doctor.
    What if....at the end of Doomsday Torchwood manages to "exile" the Doctor from Earth. Some type of barrier preventing the Tardis from coming to Earth. And if Rose were on Earth as the barrier went up, she would be separated from the Doctor. In a sense the Rose Tyler that traveled with the Doctor would die. Rose would still have Jackie and be on Earth.


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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 08:29 PM EDT
    Looking at the episode again, was that a Colonial Viper from Battlestar Galactica behind the TARDIS as Rose sneaks out of it in Torchwood? It's covered with a tarpaulin and only the nose is sticking out but it looks quite similar.

    (bloody sci-fi channel is getting adverts for other shows involved in the bloody plot now!)


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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 08:54 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Abersoch] Looking at the episode again, was that a Colonial Viper from Battlestar Galactica behind the TARDIS as Rose sneaks out of it in Torchwood? It's covered with a tarpaulin and only the nose is sticking out but it looks quite similar.
    (bloody sci-fi channel is getting adverts for other shows involved in the bloody plot now!)


    No, it's not. Unless it's just the nose, but it also looks like a fuselage from a regular airplane. Also, on the close-up of Rose mvoing to our right as she exits the TARDIS, you can see numbers and letters on the object, just like those put on planes.

    Though, talking about stealing ideas from other shows.... what about the Genesis Ark from the preview for next week? Sounds like they stole lines right out of Star Trek 2, the Wrath of Kahn.

    When watching this ep, I was like... oh yeah, OK, another smug alien hunter to bring down. I knew the Cybermen were in there (who didn't??) but I nearly doubled over at the sight of the Daleks. WOW. Double WOW. Fantastic! I just hope that part two lives up to the ending of part one.

    Ciotka Judi, The Polish Blonde
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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 11:00 PM EDT


    Possible Spoiler Alert













    [Quote  by:  Satai Styx]...

    Though, talking about stealing ideas from other shows.... what about the Genesis Ark from the preview for next week? Sounds like they stole lines right out of Star Trek 2, the Wrath of Kahn.

    ...


    Actually, when I think of "Genesis" in the same sentence with "Daleks" - I don't think of Star Trek, but rather a Doctor Who story.... one which came out on DVD fairly recently. What could be inside that ark, do you suppose? Hmmm.... From the size of it, and the reference to genesis relating to Daleks, I can only think of one thing.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 11:02 PM EDT
    WOW! That pretty much sums that episode up! Well that and a whole bunch of other adjectives I couldnt possible type in a family forum :-)

    When Mickey appeared - that was a great moment! I was hoping he'd be back in the series finale, ever since I had heard the rumour that the Cybermen would be back.

    Having said that, I suspected from the first moment I saw them, that the ghosts were Cybermen.

    The Daleks in the sphere - I didnt see that one coming though! What an ending!! I was actually thinking that Captain Jack would be in the sphere somehow - well I got that one wrong :-) I do hope he makes an appearance next week though but who knows......

    I have to say this season, so far, hasnt grabbed me as a whole the way last year's did - although there have been some really standout episodes this season to be fair. At the end of this episode though - I was in awe! I havent been ths far on the edge of my seat since Christopher Ecclestone's "Rose I'm coming to get you!" speech at the end of Bad Wolf!!

    Now, here I go again - counting down the hours and minutes until next week - just like when waiting for "Parting of the Ways" ! Way to go RTD and the whole Doctor Who team!

    PS I dont think Rose will die - or if she does she will come back - at least in some form. How else could she be telling the story of her death - unless she was around in some fashion?

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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 11:04 PM EDT
    Just saw Louis' post. I have to say I am in agreement with his suspicions about "Genesis" too!

    Having said that though - since the Daleks came in a "voidship" which travels between realities - who's to say they are the Daleks from our reality? They could be from some other reality?

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     Saturday, July 01 2006 @ 11:45 PM EDT


    Possible Spoiler Alert



    Now I was thinking about this whole thing about the death of Rose... after seeing Army of Ghosts I have a different theory now...

    Mind you, this just my own speculation... I have no inside scoop here on this. If this turns out to be true, then perhaps we need a spoiler alert here, but as said, I am merely speculating from what we have seen in this episode.

    This episode opens up with Rose telling the story of her death. But wait a bloody minute, how can she be telling this story... framing it in the past-tense, if she is dead? Hence, I do not believe she is really going to be 'dead-dead' at the end next week's episode. Perhaps Torchwood at the conclusion of this mess decides that Rose knows too much and thus makes her "dead" -- She is still alive, but for all intents and purposes she is dead. They make the world believe she is dead and Rose under a new name settles down on Earth (which ties into the conversation with her mother about settling down). So sort of like the "witness relocation protection program" in the US (perhaps other countries do it as well), they (Torchwood) erases Rose Tyler (i.e. "kills" her off), gives her a new identity and relocates her. She seems to be telling this story in the beginning of this episode standing on a beach somewhere... She's is not dead, just elsewhere (perhaps it is not Torchwood, I don't know... perhaps she does wind up on alternate Earth, but to protect her (from something coming after her perhaps, invading the world she is living in now) or something to this effect, they had to make it out that she had died.

    Again, this is just my working theory now.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 12:09 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Louis]

    Possible Spoiler Alert



    Now I was thinking about this whole thing about the death of Rose... after seeing Army of Ghosts I have a different theory now...

    Mind you, this just my own speculation... I have no inside scoop here on this. If this turns out to be true, then perhaps we need a spoiler alert here, but as said, I am merely speculating from what we have seen in this episode.

    This episode opens up with Rose telling the story of her death. But wait a bloody minute, how can she be telling this story... framing it in the past-tense, if she is dead? Hence, I do not believe she is really going to be 'dead-dead' at the end next week's episode. Perhaps Torchwood at the conclusion of this mess decides that Rose knows too much and thus makes her "dead" -- She is still alive, but for all intents and purposes she is dead. They make the world believe she is dead and Rose under a new name settles down on Earth (which ties into the conversation with her mother settling down). So sort of like the "witness relocation protection program" in the US (perhaps other countries do it as well), they (Torchwood) erases Rose Tyler (i.e. "kills" her off), gives her a new identity and relocates her. She seems to be telling this story in the beginning of this episode standing on a beach somewhere... She's is not dead, just elsewhere (perhaps it is not Torchwood, I don't know... perhaps she does wind up on alternate Earth, but to protect her (from something coming after her perhaps, invading the world she is living in now) or something to this effect, they had to make it out that she had died.

    Again, this is just my working theory now.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    I see where you are going with this and its a good theory. My take on it is that she joins up with Mickey's crew and assumes a false identity, just as all the other members have. She then stays on Earth to continue the fight. Thus, Rose Tyler dies. Either one would be a good explanation.

    I would find this ending particularly poinant because she was so worried in School Renunion that The Doctor might choose to leave her behind someday, just as he did Sarah Jane.

    Following this line of thinking, notice that RTD also slipped in a quick scene at the beginning of tonight's episode, in which The Doctor asks Rose how long she will stay with him and she says, "Forever."

    People in relationships always use the word "forever", never thinking that a reason for splitting up might come along.

    If Rose chooses to rejoin Mickey and leave The Doctor, especially after uttering the word "forever" and wrestling with her own fears of abandonment earlier this season, how heartbreaking would that be?

    "Elemental, my dear Benton." The Doctor to Sgt. Benton (The Daemons)
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 01:25 AM EDT
    FINALLY!!

    After several recent episodes that have been rather lackluster, we get back on track! Here's what I liked....

    The episode, from the start hits its stride. I LOVE the music in this one. Could it be used as the Torchwood theme later?

    Mickey! Sorry James, he's back, which I had a hunch he would be since we knew the Cybermen would be back.

    Yeah, the ghosts being Cybermen was pretty obvious but I don't care. I like the new look metal men and all the comicals bits around the ghost shift events.

    The rumor was out there about a Cybermen/Dalek story but some thought it was too much of a Fan Fic wet dream. Do people still feel that way? I can see their point but this might actually be rather fun.

    The Sphere. I knew the Daleks were involved somehow since last week's preview had the Dalek ray zapping a human. But, ultimately, I was banking on the Time Lords or the Face of Bo in the sphere. So, with the Daleks removing themselves from time and space, there could still be a sphere out there with the Time Lords.

    I haven't seen any of the Confidentials but when is Captain Jack showing up? I didn't see him in the preview for the finale.

    Tracey-Ann Oberman as Yvonne. Damn, what a sexy woman!! She can torch my wood anytime! Ahem, ah...sorry about that!! I hope she makes the new show.

    Predictions.....

    So, the rumor is that Freema Agyeman might be the new companion. And yet she appears to have died in this episode. Is she not really dead? Will it be the other Earth version? Or is the rumor simply not true?

    Finally, we have a chance to right one of the great opportunities not seized on from Rise of the Cybermen: the reunion of Jackie and Peter. Why else is Jackie getting played up in this one and we know Peter Tyler will be back for the finale.

    I'm banking on the happy ending here, folks! Jackie & Peter Tyler together. Rose and Mickey together. Why else that little talk from mom about what she's going to be like when she's older? That seems out of place but perfect if you are looking to push the character into settling down. The death thing is not it appears to be.

    Series Three: Return of the Time Lords? The Master? The Face of Bo?

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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 01:30 AM EDT
    Also, we got the BBC release a number of months back that Tennant and Piper were signed on for Series Three. Then the recent news that Piper is leaving. Could the recent release be a ruse to build the suspense for the finale?


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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 05:37 AM EDT
    Definitely not the sort of episode that's going to convert anyone to Doctor Who. Well, anyone over 10, anyway. Very conventional stuff, despite the supposed novelty of a Cybermen/Dalek clash. Maybe now that we've gotten the Daleks and Cybermen out of our system, we're free and clear to navigate in more original waters next year. Better than "Rise of the Cybermen", for whatever that's worth, but still fairly ordinary stuff. Except for the teaser, surprisingly unemotional Doctor Who from RTD. Honestly, I enjoyed myself more last week.

    The real fault with this episode is as I imagined. The use of the alternate universe Cybermen denuded it of any real tension. The "trail of breadcrumbs" leading to the Cybermen reveal wasn't very tasty. Would've been much, much better had we used this universe's Cybermen, cause you would've been less certain where the clues were leading.

    If it absolutely had to be these Cybus Cybermen, then they went the wrong way round with their monsters. Far better to have started with Daleks, then ended with Cybermen.

    Another thing: who died and made Harper the resident expert on directing Cybermen? Very disappointed he gets both of these two parters. His style's pretty uninspired. Shots that should have energy suffer from his choice to lock off the camera. He could create so much more mood with a more active camera and a good change of focal length now and again. I just wasn't ever scared in this episode, and that's directly his fault; the script provided moments of fear that he didn't realize well.

    But all this is with no knowledge of next week, and that could well change my opinions. And I do indeed have high hopes for next week. Once we got past the Cybermen reveal, the real mystery of the story came into the light, and that looks a decent enough meal.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." JNT, 1986
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 06:45 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Definitely not the sort of episode that's going to convert anyone to Doctor Who. Well, anyone over 10, anyway. Very conventional stuff, despite the supposed novelty of a Cybermen/Dalek clash. Maybe now that we've gotten the Daleks and Cybermen out of our system, we're free and clear to navigate in more original waters next year. Better than "Rise of the Cybermen", for whatever that's worth, but still fairly ordinary stuff. Except for the teaser, surprisingly unemotional Doctor Who from RTD. Honestly, I enjoyed myself more last week.


    Crumbs! You're a harsh task-master. If that episode of Doctor Who doesn't impress you, what on Earth would? Mickey's back (sorry James) and more importantly Derek Acora's OUT OF WORK! YAY!
    You can't argue with a result like that!

    (........oh bollocks, it's just a TV show.)

    I'm guessing the real reason they showed a Cyberman early on was because everyone watching was waiting for them to appear anyway. It wasn't a very well kept secret that they were coming back for the finale and by revealing them early on in the story it posed questions about the true identity of the ghosts (ie if Torchwood is already actively encouraging the ghosts through to our world and the Cybermen are the ghosts, why are they trying to interfere with Torchwood - therefore can the ghosts really be Cybermen) and what the sphere is for. They did the format of revealing the Cybermen at the end of Rise of the Cybermen and that annoyed me the whole episode was building up to a point we were already expecting to begin with.

    I don't know if having the Daleks revealed first would have made much difference. Maybe their plan will explain it all next week.

    I think we will get this universe's Cybermen at some point but to use them now would have taken up valuable minutes of the show with an explanation of their history and why they are different to the alternate ones that they've already invested a considerable amount of the series budget in.

    The only question I have about the episode is: If Torchwood gives its employees basic psychic training to prevent them being infiltrated, how come Rose can get into the sphere laboratory by pressing the psychic paper up against a computer sensor?

    Abersoch

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