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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  Army Of Ghosts!
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    Army Of Ghosts! Views: 8898
     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 04:00 PM EDT
    OH nooo DarthSkeptical you're a tough cookie to please! I find the cybermen scarier than ever, when they showed up Rise of Cybermen/Age of Steel had me squirming with childlike terror! It was great! Smile "ill-plotted" "ill-advised" - ouch!!! "waste of time waste of money?" double ouch! For me it's more like a box of Cadbury's Roses - I don't like all of them equally but they're all still chocolate Wink

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 04:38 PM EDT
    I started to think about this more and I think Rose is telling the story because she THINKS it is the end of her life. She's stuck on that beach somewhere, distant past or future, maybe even the alternate Earth. But in the end, the Doctor will arrive to pick her up.

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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 04:52 PM EDT
    Heh, I don't think it's being a "tough cookie" to suggest that putting the Cybermen in the teaser to "Rise" was a case of bad plotting that stripped the final reveal of a lot of its power. Or that the TARDIS's "death" was revealed to be a fake mere minutes after the post mortem began. Or that the Doctor got out of the cliffhanger in a really cheap way. Or that Lumic is Davros. Or that, other than being forced to upgrade involuntarily, there's not much pathos in the plight of the individual Cybermen. There's nothing you can really hang your hat on about why Cybermen are Cybermen. It's just, "You're in a steel suit against your will, you're a Cyberman."

    Instead of taking the time to differentiate them from the Daleks and, let's face it, The Borg, they have to this point done precisely the opposite. Now, granted, this final episode does allow for that line between Dalek and Cybermen to be drawn, at last. Let's hope it works out, but so far these Cybus Cybermen are an absolute nadir in the creativity of the show.

    The alien from "Fear Her" was more interesting, and we basically never saw it. The Daleks so far have had an intriguing freshness. The Slitheen at least gave a rationale and a good individual character study. The Cat-Nuns were in an interesting moral dilemma. But these Cybus Cybermen are very little more than their suits.

    Here's hoping that RTD is gonna throw us a curve ball at the last minute to clean up the mess left by McRae. Pity RTD had to hire Harper again, though. I honestly think in different hands the Cyber reveal in this episode would have been more mysterious and faster paced.

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." JNT, 1986
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 05:47 PM EDT
    Well, I still think you're being a wee bit harsh! Smile

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 06:30 PM EDT
    OMG! What an amazing episode. So many suprises throughout the episode. My favourite was the daleks but mickey very near second, the cybermen I have known since they shown the trailer but I didnt know the other two until I saw the episode.
    This episode though really good still took some time to
    get going. Not as good as last years finale two episodes. I loved the whole tv show them in that but Im glad that they have finally done something special with TORCHWOOD (a a anagram of Doctor Who). At first the whole void thing didnt impress me that much. It looked so unintersting but because it was a big part of the story for the next episode I forgive it.
    Next week episode looks really cool too. I'm really interested watching an episode with both of my two favourite monsters. Has anyone seen the next weeks tardisode because I have. Its pretty cool. You will have to watch it to find out why I bring it up. Here's a question I would like to know the answer of very much and I think would be an important part in history of Doctor Who if Im right. Has there ever been an episode when two monsters have been in one episode for example 'the daleks and the cybermen'?

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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 06:53 PM EDT
    When I thought back on my childhood memories of the first Tom Baker season, I could have sworn there was either a Dalek/Cyberman fight in some caves or a Cyberman/Sontaran fight but I recently re-watched the episodes from that season and realised I'd just got my memories all mixed up - either that or the use of the same transmat props for The Sontaran Experiment and Revenge of the Cybermen caused me to think they were all the same story.....and Genesis of the Daleks came somewhere in between.

    (well I was only about 4 or 5 at the time Oops! )

    So that's why I am excited at the thought of seeing that fight at last.


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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 08:15 PM EDT
    Well, I love the new Cybermen, but I'm completely stymied as to why they had to be from another universe. THIS universe had Cybermen, there was no need to drag an alternate Rose's family into the situation, unless RTD had already planned the season's end, and Rose's departure into that other dimensional universe.

    Absersoch, the only episode I know of that put Daleks and Cybermen together was The Five Doctors but I don't think they actually interacted.

    From what I have heard, copyright is very different in the UK than it is in the US. Here, if Daleks were created for a TV show, the show would own the rights, not the actual creator, normally. And so too would the Cybermen belong to the show. So they could pit them against each other any time.

    From stories about Series 27 and the return of the Daleks, and negotiations with the Nation estate, it seems that it can be quite difficult to put two creatures together because it would require the agreement of both copyright holders, and the show itself would be in a very weak bargaining position.

    The only situation I can recall like this in US TV was when the Green Hornet met Batman back in the 1960s. There was a scene in which Robin and Kato (played by Bruce Lee) got into a fight, before they realised they were on the same side and teamed up.

    The original script had Robin winning, but Bruce Lee refused to shoot it that way. Because, well, duh... there's no way in hell Bruce Lee would lose to Robin the Boy Blunder. So they ended it in a draw.

    I imagine it's far worse getting Cybermen and Daleks to fight in the UK copyright system.

    And here's a plot point I'd like cleared up:

    If the Cybermen got through the dimensions as ghosts whenever Torchwood fired up the machinery, and it took them 1000 tries before they finally came through... how did Mickey and Pete make it through intact before the Cybermen? Did I miss that explanation? (Haven't seen it for a second time yet.)


    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 09:54 PM EDT
    Wait a minute... this just occured to me - how is showing cybermen in the teaser to an episode called "rise of the cybermen" stealing the momentum of there being cybermen in that episode? surely you'd then be stuck arguing that the episode name itself was a spoiler?

    And copywrite issues? huh? really? I've never heard anything like that - got any links? I have a really hard time imagining BBC having copywrite trouble with their own show. Wouldn't Romulans vs. Klingons is a more accurate comparison than Batman vs. Greenhornet? Or what about Scoobie Doo vs Harlem Globetrotters - now THAT was crossing dimensions!

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 11:17 PM EDT
    Yes, they had to deal with the Terry Nation estate before they were allowed to have Daleks on the new series.


    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Sunday, July 02 2006 @ 11:39 PM EDT
    Weird! I just found a link about it, I never would have guessed.

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Monday, July 03 2006 @ 12:45 AM EDT

    Yeah Terry Nation and now his estate owns 50% of the rights to the Daleks, and the BBC the other half. Raymond Cusick got zilch Cry ...


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     Monday, July 03 2006 @ 04:59 AM EDT
    On one of the BBC Doctor Who audio CDs with interviews throughout Who's history, Terry Nation mentions that he did retain some or partial ownership to the Daleks. Nice move, Terry!

    Not that more special effects equates to a good episode but now I can see why they skimped on some of the episodes recently and even why that one writer's episode got bumped to Series3 (and then recently he dropped out). These two final episodes probably cost a bundle of pounds. Perhaps they can reuse the Torchwood sets for the new series?

    And I'm diggin' the new Cybus Cybermen. I like the new look. I like the retro voices used. I like the added addition of the new terminology with today's tech like "upgrade". RTD gave them a more human element with the emotion chip and the gutting of the human population to form them. Certainly this is not even close to being the nadir of creativity of Who villains.

    Why an alternate universe Cybus Cybermen over the Doctor's universe? Perhaps to make a clean break away from lengthy past history and to start fresh for the new viewers. This allows RTD to tweak them a little too from the original design (eliminate the dopey gold thing) and add his human element with a twin Earth rather than a twin Earth called Mondas. Simply put, RTD can update this villain without scrapping or ignoring past Who history.

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     Monday, July 03 2006 @ 05:54 AM EDT
    i thourght is was gd but i hat it when they always put continued at the end just when it gets to a gd, lol Evil

    [Quote  by:  capricorn1] SPOILERS

    WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eek! Eek! Eek! Eek! Eek! Eek!

    Daleks!!! I know there have been rumours but I was genuinely shocked!!!!

    I need a TARDIS so I can get to next Saturday!!!

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     Monday, July 03 2006 @ 07:13 AM EDT
    On seening this episode the "Ghosts" reminded me very much of the shadow's which were so menacing in Alan Garner's children's classic book "Elidor". I guess Brit's only will be able to comment on this as I was unable to buy the book for my kids in the US and had to obtain it on a trip to the UK.

    Also I recently listened to the sixth Doctor audio "Project Lazerus", Torchwood seems to be represented as an exact duplicate of the Forge from this story.

    Good Ep though, I hope everything is not resolved in the last 10 seconds with a satsuma.

    In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are Kings
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     Monday, July 03 2006 @ 08:40 AM EDT
    I do really hope we see a Cybermen vs Dalek gunfight. That would be cool!

    Practice acts of random kindness.
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