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     Home »  Torchwood - Series 1 »  Torchwood: (E03) Ghost Machine
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    Torchwood: (E03) Ghost Machine Views: 2662
     Monday, October 30 2006 @ 09:55 PM EST
    Very good episode! Liked it better than the first 2, not that they were bad, though. I think, if they were determined to do the "sex monster" cliche it was a good idea to get it out of the way right off the bat, rather than wasting time with it later. Smile
    As for if they followed up on where Bernie got the artifact, if you can navigate the monstrosity that is the Torchwood website, in the "Case 3" section, there's a newspaper article that sort of clears up where the goods came from.

    And and.... the preview for next week! is it next week yet?

    'They may shoot me dead, but I have the moral high ground!'
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     Monday, October 30 2006 @ 11:37 PM EST
    Thanks for that, it's in the gadgets node for Episode 3 if you want to dig through the flash, but, here for your easy HTML navigation pleasure-

    http://www.torchwood.org.uk/html/gadgets/magazine.shtml

    Also Laughing Out Loud -

    http://www.torchwood.org.uk/html/gadgets/poster.shtml

    The last sign must have fallen behind the breakroom fridge, since no one there seems to follow this common sense rule.

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 06:16 AM EST
    I liked this episode the most out of the first three. However, my complaints about hitting viewers over the head is clear here. Do we really need a scene where Jack is getting all emotional with Gwen when he's teaching her how to use a gun? It's just not believable. Some of the characters act like emotional children--they don't have depth to them. I'm praying that this changes. I enjoyed how the climax of the show was resolved as it showed that you can't quite control the future. What I didn't like is Jack's "It's almost morning and everything is all okay" speech. What would have been better is his agreeing that life sometimes is full of bad choices and strange events--that we can't always control what happens. Yet somehow, they (Torchwood) need to shoulder that and move on.

    A little emotional depth to his character and some select words with Gwen would have spoke volumes to the bond he's trying to build with her rather than: "I don't sleep" ('Boo-hoo, don't you feel bad for me?') There's some simple choices here that aren't being made and it's making me cringe as a viewer. I hate to say this, but the cast and crew might want to sit down and since the last few seasons of X-Files and see how emotional bonds are built among various characters. Heck, all of this type of stuff in shows has been done time and time again. I'm hoping that they get this right. I think that the show has potential, but there are problems that need to be worked out.

    Not to end on a bad note: I like the production values. The filming is beautiful. Makes me want to see Cardiff with all those wonderful aerial shots! Smile

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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 07:34 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  Mohan] I liked this episode the most out of the first three. However, my complaints about hitting viewers over the head is clear here. Do we really need a scene where Jack is getting all emotional with Gwen when he's teaching her how to use a gun? It's just not believable.


    Ever seen "Team America: World Police"?

    The hour's approaching, just give it your best
    You've got to reach your prime.
    Thatís when you need to put yourself to the test,
    And show us a passage of time,
    We're gonna need a montage (montage)
    Oh it takes a montage (montage)

    Show a lot of things happing at once,
    Remind everyone of whatís going on (whatís going on?)
    And with every shot you show a little improvement
    To show it all would take too long
    Thatís called a montage (montage)
    Oh we want montage (montage)

    And anything that we want to go from just a beginner to a pro,
    You need a montage (montage)
    Even Rocky had a montage (montage)

    (MontageÖmontage)

    Anything that we want to go from just a beginner to a pro,
    You need a montage (montage)
    Oh it takes a montage (montage)

    Always fade out in a montage,
    If you fade out, it seem like more time
    Has passed in a montage,
    Montage


    And I could include "Even Buffy had a Montage!"

    The scene in "Once More With Feeling" had Buffy training with Giles while he sang about his having to leave Buffy or she'd never be able to make it on her own.

    Sean.
    (Sigh... why do lyrics sites have to be written by illiterate 14-year-olds with hearing difficulties? I had to search several pages for the correct lyrics, and even then it had simple grammatical errors... sigh.)

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 07:43 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  Mohan]
    Not to end on a bad note: I like the production values. The filming is beautiful. Makes me want to see Cardiff with all those wonderful aerial shots! Smile


    Has anyone on the forum seen Torchwood in High Def? - not the cinema screening - but on the BBC HD Trial channel (here in the UK)?

    Comments on the Digital Spy forum say the picture is supposed to be one of the best seen and broadcast with 5.1 DD sound.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 08:07 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter] Ever seen "Team America: World Police"?


    I saw "Team America: World Police" opening weekend and I laughed so hard that I nearly passed out. I was surprised that it didn't do well at the box office. I thought every teenager from miles around would flock to the movie. What I loved about the film was it's straight out "in your face" mocking of everything from how movies are made to my government's, how to we say it, bombastic disregard for the rest of the world.


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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 09:24 AM EST
    Okay - so I was REALLY disappointed by this episode.
    Sorry, I wish I wasn't, but I just felt bored and angry the whole way through.

    The main reasons are as follows (and I think i'm re-itterating a lot of peoples points here):

    1) Lashings of cheesy dialogue - that whole bit at the end between Jack and Gwen was Cartland in proportions - and her lying her head on his shoulder (!) - they just seems a bit too close a bit too quickly.

    2) Predicatable - again dissapointingly so, one thing I have learnt from this production crew is that the plots generally take me in a different direction to the norm. For example the twist with Jack getting shot at the end of the first episode - never saw that coming, pure genius. I could almost plot this one scene for scene from the beginging.

    3) Badly directed - The 'gun' scene was gratuitous and completely unecessary. It showed Gwen as some gun toting child playing with toys like she's in some first person shoot em up. Plus it was so gratuitously shoving Jack and Gwen together - I was screaming out for them to go home, get through the exposition about Jack not being able to sleep/die/whatever and get on with the story, even if it was predictable. It was mostly (with some exceptions) was badly shot, badly lit, there were staged scenes thrown in with 'imporvisational'/'naturalistic' scenes which under- used some cracking actors and made them look like they were acting for a 'debt' commercial. CSI does 'shooting range' scenes so much better, even something like out of MiB would have worked better (thrown some humour in there maybe?) or an excellent Sci-Fi gun moment (a la Micky Smith). Coupling that with cheese-fest scenes like the blue lit end number (a poor neighbour to the scene at the end of the second episode) I felt let down by the direction of at least 50% of this ep ( I'll get on to what I did like in a minute)

    4) Continuity - Am I the only one that notice that Bernie didn't actually die at the end? Despite them shoving this hackneyed 'can't escape fate' concept in everyone's face. Seems he did alright for himself out the back end of it.

    5) Unesecary trainspotting chase sequence - why sacrifice the excellent music of murray gold in the Owen/Bernie chase sequence for dance music. I can see what they were trying to do but it just didn't work and felt out of place in the whole episode ( see point 3)

    6) What happened to Jack in this episode - he just felt shoe-horned in as a plot device and some sort of gun-toting sexual predator with good hair.

    7) Completely unessecary scenes: why was so much time spent on the boy at the beinging, the whole thing felt contrived. They could have skipped this whole chunk and gone straight to the bridge with Owen, spent more time on the girl who was killed and therefore given more weight to Owen's 'obsession', as it seemed spending 10/15 minutes harping on about some kid who got lost just undermined Owen's final reaction to the extent that I REALLY didn't believe Owen would ever consider stabbing Eddie in the end.

    8) Wasted characters: Toshiko completely wasted in this episode, and considering that Ianto is such a big part next week there is absolutely no build up to this, he had one line,can these characters have some gentle development please.

    9) Plot holes - why was the machine soaking up energy - to what end, how, why did it 'drift' through the rift as detritus- so many unanswered ( and frankly more interesting) questions have been left unsatiated.

    So - just to lift because I hate being so negative (put it this way - I don't think Love&Monsters was a bad effort and actually preferred it to this):

    1) Eve Myles continues to score high points, managed to deal well with cliche dialogue and some pretty big character impacts. I was really impressed with the genuine skill in dealing with the stabbing of Eddy and the richness of her performance in the opening .
    2) I've always liked the work of Burn Gorman and I thought he did really well, given what he had to work with, despite not believing the character would consider murder at least I cared by the end, I think mostly I didn't belive he would have killed Eddie due to the fact that after the confrontation scene the camera seemed to forget he was there ( i.e. could they have made more of the necessary passion of his emotions in the drive to Bernie's?)
    3) The opening scene, good pace, good transition from the previous episode, good team dynamic evolving.
    4) Absolutely loved the scene where Gwen re-lived the best bits of her relationship. Really nice sentiment and done much better than the forced (and unessecary) affection between her and Jack.
    5) Well lit/shot/directed scenes : Opening chase, Owen's interrogation of Eddie (very good), the final scene, Owen's 'obsession' scene in the flat with his papers.

    I think that's it. I don't want to go on anymore - it's making me depressed.


    As a final note, please be better next week. Please don't make this another K9 and co , or even worse, another 'Robin Hood'. I beg you!

    *********************************************************** "Rubber Soles - Swear by them!"
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 09:48 AM EST
    Some very good points by whodovoodoo, here is one more. Since we are obviously building to some sort of Gwen/Jack relationship,
    why is she only seeing happy memories at home?
    Further, if all of her home memories are happy why does she feel the need to view them in this manner like a
    photo album or an old home movie?
    Unless they were the only (ever) occupants of the flat am I to believe that no other STRONG emotions occoured in that room?
    Hopefully some elements will be pulled into an eventual resolution or the focus is going to start seeping away.

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 11:35 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  whodovoodoo]

    As a final note, please be better next week. Please don't make this another K9 and co , or even worse, another 'Robin Hood'. I beg you!


    Firstly - please don't say you think it's as bad as Robin Hood - that is dire, with miscasting and those awful modern-day references.

    As to your other points - the first 'ghost' was to set the tone of the episode without jumping straight into a 'who-doneit' murder plot.

    Owen was well used for that part as we have seen from an earlier episode he's only 'one step' away from doing such a crime himself. It's that he sees this in himself that gets under his skin and makes him think the man should pay.

    Gareth (Blake) played to old man really well - racked as he was with guilt (and fear of discovery)

    Gwen as you say did well with the 'blood on her hands' scene.

    The gun scene was there I think to both to show Captain Jack connecting to someone for the first time (probably) since his immortality - and also clued up viewers from other countries that 'the use of guns' is not normal police practice. And anyway I liked that scene.

    So all in all it could have been much better - but it was no 'Robin Hood!'

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 04:05 PM EST


    Is it just me or did anyone else think that Gareth (I can't recall the name of his character in this episode now) falling on the knife at the end was a bit unbelievable? No, Gareth was great in it... just the concept itself. Now, I never stabbed anyone with a knife, but I would imagine it would take a little bit of force. The knife went through his sweater and other clothes and although in itself may not have been fatal, it may have brought on a heart attack... I only saw the episode once... so I am not sure how Gwen was holding the knife, but still, it is knife, not a lightsabre, I would think if it was going to pierce him the way it did, that Gwen would have be holding the knife firmly and purposely. Right? Or was she "frozen" again?

    Anyway, I am probably making it out to be more than I should perhaps.


    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 06:09 PM EST
    well, I finally saw it and I agree with pretty much everything Whodovoodoo said. I even have some more to add in:
    1) Louis is right. the man just slams into a knife? What the-?!
    2) again, not much happened in this episode. For a show that's supposed to display things that are too much for the government to handle, this is very small potatoes. I must compare to Doctor Who, because this is, despite RTD wishes, a spinoff. The first 3 episodes of Doctor Who, by comparison, had Autons attacking, the end of the world, and an alien race that inhabited the dead and tried to make their way into our world. With Torchwood, we get a Weevil and murders from inside Torchwood, a sex alien, and a machine that lets you see the past and future. I know Torchwood isn't going for the epic, universe expansive breadth of DW, but come on, for me, this is barely scifi.
    3) What is up with Captain Jack? First off, I liked the character because he was a rogueish Han Solo type, and he had his own ship. I know he lost his ship, but man, this guy has really been neutered. He's not half as fun to watch when he's being serious and heading a team. I want a Captain Jack that walks the line between what's right and what's wrong. I want the scoundrel back.

    some good things to say about the episode are that I also definitely noticed that the direction was better, and there were character beats here: something that was all but absent in the first two episodes.
    I'll definitely be tuning into the rest of the series, and I'm even excited about the next episode with Cyberman connections, but this is not what I had hoped it would be.
    again, it just feels shallow.

    Heath Holland
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 06:09 PM EST
    It is possible. If Eddie approached her so quickly that she had no time to turn the blade, the knife would be jammed between their bodies and since a sharp object has no reason to turn away when pushed suddenly against a soft target.... Of course it might have been more believeable if he'd grabbed both of her hands and pulled her into him but I still think it worked the way he did it.

    Overall, I thought the episode was "ok" (5/10). It kept me watching to see just how it would work out but it could have had a bit more substance. I thought it was a bit convenient that Gwen just happened to be fiddling with the device in the exact spot where her next premonition of the events took place. I was waiting for the shooting range to have a relevance to the story but since it didn't I'm assuming that it's a set up for a future storyline.

    Not that bothered about Jack flirting with Gwen since he did the same with Rose when he first met her (of course then he was just trying to get her in a position to negotiate terms for the crashed ship).

    The one thing that I don't think came across as well as it might have was that the device transmitted the emotions of the people that it showed. So Owen's anger was not so much from having witnessed Lizzy's murder as it was from having experienced the sheer terror and her sense of helplessness as. If they'd got that across a bit stronger then his motivation for revenge would have been much clearer.

    I'm still gonna keep watching though. I remember the first series of Babylon 5 being pretty dire for the early episodes but it picked up late on in the season and I ended up loving it more than Star Trek. So I'll stick with this for the season and see where it takes me.

    Abersoch

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     Wednesday, November 01 2006 @ 01:02 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  hdutch007] ...
    3) What is up with Captain Jack? First off, I liked the character because he was a rogueish Han Solo type, and he had his own ship. I know he lost his ship, but man, this guy has really been neutered. He's not half as fun to watch when he's being serious and heading a team. I want a Captain Jack that walks the line between what's right and what's wrong. I want the scoundrel back.

    ...


    I agree... this is not the same Captain Jack we got know and love from the 2005 series of Doctor Who. Supposedly, he isn't the same since becoming immortal.

    My take on this characterization of Captain Jack is that they have spun him into "The Doctor" character for this series. When we first met the 9th Doctor, he was this mysterious character as the Doctor has always been, but now he seems to be dealing with these heavy issues such as playing a part of the demise of his own people, the Time War, etc... it is a bruised Doctor we saw on the screen then.

    It seems we are seeing the same formula once again being used with the Captain Jack character. He is not the happy-go-lucky guy we knew before, but now he is on Earth in the 21st century because that is when "everything changes..." He can't die. He doesn't sleep, etc., etc.... No one knows where he came from... and what drives him. He is the surrogate Doctor for this series.

    Although it may have worked for the 9th Doctor, I am not sure it is working here for Captain Jack.

    Well, I am still watching. We will see what happens.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Wednesday, November 01 2006 @ 03:12 AM EST
    I feel like I'm swimming against the stream in saying that I like where this show is going. I will agree that they need to stick to their own guidelines, but right now one off-kilter story element isn't a problem for me.

    I know that Darthskeptical is down on the focus of the show, but after three episodes can we really say that the show has found it's true direction? We got more out of Owen in this one episode than in the first two. Keep in mind that Gwen is our main character and Captain Jack is the character that sold the show to audiences in the first place. The focus being anywhere else in the first few episodes would be a bit dissapointing.

    I am in the minority in liking the firing range scene. Yes, it was slightly awkward and out of place, but only slightly. The scene was about building the bond between Gwen and Jack. It focused on the establishment of trust and breaking down the barriers that allow Jack to connect with his team members. One of the major questions being developed in these first few episodes is how Gwen will adapt her normal life to her life in Torchwood.

    In Who, Rose is young and easily swayed. She is still full of her dreams and focuses upon those dreams. Gwen is an older woman with deep connections to a person that she is drifting away from. THe scenes with her boyfriend are touching because you can feel the gap widening despite their best efforts. Subtle shifts will give this more weight over time. My biggest problem is that we haven't learned enough about her boyfriend, although we may see that soon enough.

    Once again we are finding that this board is full of diverse opinion! I disagree with a lot of other people's points on this episode but that's why this is fun! I'm definitely in the camp of letting this one run awhile. I can tell you this. I was ready for this show to be anything. After three episodes, I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season. In contrast, I am a huge Aaron Sorkin fan and I find Studio 60 to be sermonizing and arrogant. In light of that, the show still has time to grow, as does Torchwood. Every new show treads over old ground and blazes new trails.

    Next week, Cyberladies... where oh where does this one go?!?

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     Wednesday, November 01 2006 @ 06:12 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  Jagoscourage]
    Next week, Cyberladies... where oh where does this one go?!?


    I'm guessing there might be a dominatrix angle Big Grin

    Sorry if this has been covered in another thread (I don't read them all), but you've reminded me of another little niggle here...

    After all the huge, public spectacles of alien life that have happened in the last two seasons of Doctor Who, I'm sure I've heard a couple of times now that it's all been casually dismissed and accepted by the general populace as mass halucinations due to "something funny in the tap water". Even though the Doctor told Rose on the beach that "so many people died that day, and she was listed as one of the missing, presumed dead".

    So which is it to be - the people are duped into believing in some major conspiracy (in which case the people should be in revolt against their governments on a WorldWide scale - not the impression i'm getting from the people of Cardif) or the people DO know about hostile alien life appearing in their homes but actually aren't that bothered.

    Continuity please!

    If half the art of survival is running away, the other half is knowing when to keep a straight face.
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