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     Home »  Torchwood - Series 1 »  Torchwood: (E04) Cyberwoman
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    Torchwood: (E04) Cyberwoman Views: 4711
     Tuesday, November 07 2006 @ 08:41 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  hdutch007] ...
    I agree that the show seems targeted to the tween/teen demographic with some sex stuff thrown in. It actually feels at, or below, the level of maturity of Doctor Who. What I don't understand is why didn't they leave the sex stuff out and just let the kids watch it? Put it on in Doctor Who's timeslot. It's certainly geared for it.
    ...


    A good and valid point. The new revisioned Battlestar Galactica is more "adult" than I have found Torchwood to be so far. If one was to tone down the sex and language a bit, Torchwood would fit perfectly in Doctor Who's timeslot in its absence. Not only would it hold over the younglings until Doctor Who returned, but they could also market it with all the toys just like they are doing with DW at the moment. More venue for the BBC (to reinvest in these programs).

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 06:19 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley] I think the Swis Army tool is going to figure into several stories (they spent too much money on that peice of stainless steel to use it just once Wink ).


    So it's a kind of Sonic Screwdriver then!

    If half the art of survival is running away, the other half is knowing when to keep a straight face.
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 06:44 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  actorguy] ...can anyone give me an example of a sci-fi episode/concept that hasn't been done before? Who was it that said there are only five plots (or was it four) in all of drama?


    I know what you mean, but many other shows (Sci-Fi or otherwise) manage to keep me watching for several seasons with their character developments, long-term story arcs, truly unforseen plot twists and so on. I'm one of the sad cases addicted to "Lost" for this very reason. I literally cannot miss an episode. Eek!

    Torchwood hasn't presented me with a single thought provoking moment. I don't expect every episode to be a classic, but now and then it would be nice to have my imagination suddenly taken roaring down the motorway at 100mph. Instead it's been left ticking over in neutral in the drive way for the whole 50 minutes.

    And to be honest, I don't know of a single other person watching it . I work in an industry with alot of people who normally devour these shows. Shows like Lost, Doctor Who, BatteStar Galactica (even Smallville for goodness sake!) have my room at work humming the next day, with everyone disecting the episode just aired, coming up with pet theories and so on.

    Not Torchwood though Cry

    If half the art of survival is running away, the other half is knowing when to keep a straight face.
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 08:12 AM EST
    So what I want to know is does Ken still maintain the philosophy of "in Russel we trust?" because I think a lot of us are losing faith very quickly.

    Heath Holland
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 08:26 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  actorguy] ...can anyone give me an example of a sci-fi episode/concept that hasn't been done before? Who was it that said there are only five plots (or was it four) in all of drama?


    I seem to remember that "Twin Peaks" was pretty original, at least in the beginning. By the second series it had kind of lost it's direction (after a while you stop being enigmatic and start being weird). The main hook for Peaks was engauging, eccentric characters and situations, with an overall aura of "what on earth is going on?"

    At the time this was radicially different, and was successful in the UK, at least. I presume that it was moderately successful in the US, since there is more than one series. Did it run on one of the networks, or was it cable?

    In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are Kings
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 09:27 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  MikeD]
    The production is very slick but when I compare the quality of the writing to other mature series like Spooks, Clocking Off, Murphy's Law or Ultraviolet it just doesn't stand up.

    Mike


    Kudos television has a very unique style - one which I wouldn't think the BBC could replicate in the Torchwood series. Having sair that I really wish they could for Torchwood.
    If this show had the production values of something like Spooks we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    *********************************************************** "Rubber Soles - Swear by them!"
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 11:55 AM EST
    Here's my two pence:

    a. I don't think RTD has or wants that much control/input/etc. as he does with Doctor Who; I think DW takes up most of his time/energy, and he's handed most of his creative control over to others on Torchwood. At least that's the impression I get from the interviews and what I've seen on screen so far.

    b. I agree wholeheartedly with Ken, Louis, and James with their review of the first two episodes - it's good, but it doesn't have that same magic as Doctor Who, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Firefly had for its hardcore fans. I see this running maybe to three seasons, but that's it unless the stories/characters improve greatly.

    It's good, I'm glad I'm watching it, but will I spend $99 for a box set of Season One? At this point I'd say probably not.

    The challenge here is to find a unique hook for the series, and then create a series that's 110% of your blood, sweat and tears to make it a terrific show. Don't rely on the ambiance of Doctor Who. If you do, you won't get renewed.

    Ciotka Judi, The Polish Blonde
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 12:25 PM EST
    Late to the game, sorry, so my comments will rehash some others opinions.

    first - not related, but in this thread - I enjoy DS9 much more then TNG, especially the 'war years.' They are the military for goodness sakes. Enough of that.

    The Kiss - I'm naive. I admit it. When Jack first started kissing Ianto I thought, what the --?!? Then I convinced myself that Jack just forgot the proper method of mouth to mouth ressucitation, and that's what he was doing: mouth to mouth. Now, what Gwen was doing w/ Owen the Git, I don't know. She's getting a lot of action for the only person in an actual relationship.

    The Costume - okay, large breast plate. Whatever. I live in the US, I expect to see exaggerated chests on women in sci-fi, crazy, but its there. But what is with the hi-cut bikini bottoms? they are not efficient and the cybermen always seemed to be efficient to me. I got the whole "the cybermen were trying to do a 1/2 upgrade to get more soldiers at the end of the battle" but why would they really take the time to so sexily cover a womans bottom and at the same time elongate her legs? The high heels... whatever. And the whole episode reminded me of the Borg.

    Ianto - I didn't have any trouble getting his perspective on this. I think the fact that he has been hiding cyberchick in the basement for so long now explains why he kept himself apart from the other people. Previously I assumed that he was the only government dude in the group. The one who played by the rule book and possibly a mole to report back on this group to the head of Torchwood. Now we see that he is just as rogue as the rest - and in as dangerous a way as Suzie was.

    Jack - At the end, he said to Gwen that for a second there he thought he was dying, and it made him feel alive again. I think that does explain his anger and lack of "Jack-ness" we have seen, and as we have discussed in previous threads. I miss that. Hopefully next episode will bring back the Jack we love.

    supremacy is relative
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 12:55 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  hdutch007] So what I want to know is does Ken still maintain the philosophy of "in Russel we trust?" because I think a lot of us are losing faith very quickly.


    I can not speak for Ken, but I lost my faith after Love & Monsters... So I already lost it before Torchwood.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 01:30 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  mad4plaid] ...

    Jack - At the end, he said to Gwen that for a second there he thought he was dying, and it made him feel alive again. I think that does explain his anger and lack of "Jack-ness" we have seen, and as we have discussed in previous threads. I miss that. Hopefully next episode will bring back the Jack we love.


    Yeah, it is the whole immortality thing they have thrust on him. Knowing he can not die has dulled life for him. There is no sense of risk or thrill. Nothing excites him as it used to previously...

    The only problem is that it is not just Jack feeling this, it is us, in the audience feeling the same thing about the character... He lost everything that made him so compelling in the first place.

    Personally, I don't think I would have such a problem with not being able to die... But I guess I will never know. But you know what they say about being granted immortality: "To lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose." Wink

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 04:02 PM EST
    I'm slow to join this thread (just watched Cyberwoman this morning)... I also have not had time to read all of the comments yet, so apologies if I repeat something someone else has already said.

    I thought this episode was about on par with the first three. It's Sci-fi fluff so far. I'd rate the first 4 eps with the last few years of Stargate SG-1.

    It seems to me that the problem with Torchwood is that there is no character build-up, and therefore I don't have any sympathy/empathy for any of them. There have been no new insights into the Torchwood organization- history, structure, etc. We know virtually nothing more about Jack's situation, we know nothing about who the other characters really are. They seem just to be plot devices- and rather weak ones at that. The action scenes are good, the effects very good, but I am just not engaged with the characters at all.

    Would I be watching Torchwood if it were unrelated to Doctor Who? Not for much longer, I have to admit. I keep waiting for someone interesting to show up, but it's just not happening. I'd even take a Harriet Jones... Come on, Russell- throw us a bone already!

    It may be unfair to compare Torchwood to Doctor Who directly, since we have had over 40 years to become engaged with the Doctor. As a result, the Doctor needs virtually no introduction when he enters a scene. Unfortunately, it seems that RTD is writing Jack with the same approach, and I'm just not that into him yet.

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 05:14 PM EST
    [Quote -Ianto is still ordering Pizza to be delivered? 10 dollars, or pounds, says he's still using Torchwood as the name.


    and did anyone else notice how long the pizza took to arrive as well? ordered at the start of the episode and it arrived towards the end! im surprised they're even still using the place.

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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 05:22 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  whodovoodoo]
    [Quote  by:  MikeD]
    The production is very slick but when I compare the quality of the writing to other mature series like Spooks, Clocking Off, Murphy's Law or Ultraviolet it just doesn't stand up.

    Mike


    Kudos television has a very unique style - one which I wouldn't think the BBC could replicate in the Torchwood series. Having sair that I really wish they could for Torchwood.
    If this show had the production values of something like Spooks we wouldn't be having this discussion.


    I have no issues with the style or production values of Torchwood. I don't think they need to copy the style of Spooks or any of the other series that I mentioned (only one of which is from Kudos). My issue with Torchwood is that the writing is not very good and not very mature and the series I listed are all examples of adult series that I think have had good writing. It has zero to do with money.

    Mike

    "There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be fought."
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 05:23 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  Louis]

    Yeah, it is the whole immortality thing they have thrust on him. Knowing he can not die has dulled life for him. There is no sense of risk or thrill. Nothing excites him as it used to previously...

    The only problem is that it is not just Jack feeling this, it is us, in the audience feeling the same thing about the character... He lost everything that made him so compelling in the first place.

    Personally, I don't think I would have such a problem with not being able to die... But I guess I will never know. But you know what they say about being granted immortality: "To lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose." Wink

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Just re-watched the episode on BBC2.

    One thought I had about Captain Jack was - suppose 'he can't die' is not that at all - suppose (and he won't know this) that he has via the Tardis been given the 'twelve re-genreations' of a Time Lord?

    He lost one life in the 51st C, he lost one in Episode 1, he lost two in this 4th episode and because he 'knows he can't die' must mean he's lost it once again before the series openned - maybe he did toss himself off the high building we see him on.

    So he could have yused up 5 or more of his re-generations already but not being a Gallifreyan he doesn't change his appearance each time.

    By the time he finds the Doctor he may be cured - ie. on his last life anyway.

    If you think I'm talking rubbish then in my defence I'm half-way through a bottle of red wine! Eek!

    What do you all think?

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 05:36 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  daveac] ...
    One thought I had about Captain Jack was - suppose 'he can't die' is not that at all - suppose (and he won't know this) that he has via the Tardis been given the 'twelve re-genreations' of a Time Lord?

    He lost one life in the 51st C, he lost one in Episode 1, he lost two in this 4th episode and because he 'knows he can't die' must mean he's lost it once again before the series openned - maybe he did toss himself off the high building we see him on.

    So he could have yused up 5 or more of his re-generations already but not being a Gallifreyan he doesn't change his appearance each time.

    By the time he finds the Doctor he may be cured - ie. on his last life anyway.

    If you think I'm talking rubbish then in my defence I'm half-way through a bottle of red wine! Eek!

    What do you all think?

    Cheers, daveac


    Though traditionally, regeneration means changing of the appearance and alteration of the persona as well. Jack seems to have remained the same, at least on the outside...


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