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     Home »  Torchwood - Series 2 »  [Spoilers]TW S2 E13 'Exit Wounds'
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    [Spoilers]TW S2 E13 'Exit Wounds' Views: 3990
     Saturday, April 05 2008 @ 05:09 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  silvanthalas]And was I the only one who was scratching their head over the way some of Gray's lines were delivered? At first I was just thinking that they had to do some rerecording of his lines, but then as you listen, at times those lines sounded more and more like Barrowman. Ok, the voice gives a real brotherly quality to the actor who plays Gray, but I was getting the impression that it was Barrowman himself dubbing lines over the actor's speaking.

    I noticed that too, at first I wondered if John Barrowman had a brother who they'd cast but then Gray started to waver in accent from Mid-Atlantic to Australian to English.
    Overall I enjoyed the episode, not a patch on Fragments, but the deaths were really well handled. I really didn't like James Marsters (never have) and am annoyed that once again the series ends with two episodes that are clearly superior to the rest of the season.
    Next year I'm going to wait and watch the last episodes on their own.


    Bollocks...sir.
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     Saturday, April 05 2008 @ 06:16 PM EDT
    My big question is- Did Jack KNOW that a future version of himself was in the freezer all this time, waiting to wake up at just the right moment??

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Saturday, April 05 2008 @ 08:12 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  rocko] My big question is- Did Jack KNOW that a future version of himself was in the freezer all this time, waiting to wake up at just the right moment??


    No - because subjectively - his life like ours is linear.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Saturday, April 05 2008 @ 08:47 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  rocko] My big question is- Did Jack KNOW that a future version of himself was in the freezer all this time, waiting to wake up at just the right moment??


    No - because subjectively - his life like ours is linear.

    Cheers, daveac


    Yes, agreed, but you would think as the head of this branch of Torchwood, he would have some idea of just what is being stored in the freezers there. At least one would think he would have a good idea of what is there (baring the Cyberwoman from the first series I guess).

    I supposed he would have worked it out somehow to mask it from his future self... err.. really his past self in the future from discovering himself in there somehow.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Saturday, April 05 2008 @ 10:42 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Louis]Yes, agreed, but you would think as the head of this branch of Torchwood, he would have some idea of just what is being stored in the freezers there. At least one would think he would have a good idea of what is there (baring the Cyberwoman from the first series I guess).


    If you recall, in "To The Last Man" he didn't know that Tosh was mentioned in the file at all to the last minute. Also, given the fact alone that they packed away everything of Tosh and Owen's, Torchwood must have an absolutely enormous storage space given the number of dead employees they've gathered over the years. Besides, Jack seems very committed to Torchwood; if someone had told him "really, don't look in this case" I think he'd have listened to them. As opposed to the Doctor, who would've gotten a peek in as soon as possible. Laughing Out Loud

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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 03:59 AM EDT
    Another point in this regard is that, really, Jack's not been in charge of Torchwood 3 all that long, and throughout most of that time his concern has been with trying to reform it. (Or sleep with its various officers.) Not sure he's really had the time to go around and verify the contents of every single cupboard in the joint.

    The easier thing to believe is just that the early-20th century Torchwood simply gave a false inventory of the cabinet and nobody peeked (or if someone did, it was a Torchwood boss other than Jack, who would've likely preserved the secret.)

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." JNT, 1986
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 12:18 PM EDT
    I teared up, but no gushers for me. I'm glad Owen is wrapped up and gone (still, what an icky way to go). I liked that Tosh was able to calm him down, that showed a bit of a connection between the two. I wish that Tosh had let Owen know she was going to die as well. Would have liked to see that interaction. Gonna miss Tosh.

    Gray, what a hottie. All that anger. I'm sure he'll pop up again, and it looks like John/Spike could be back since he's staying in our timeline for awhile.


    supremacy is relative
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 12:21 PM EDT
    I guess my next question (with regards to the version of Jack in storage throughout the 20th century) would be: how many other Jacks do you think are currently in the Torchwood storage facility?

    Did you say "74,384,338 to 1 against"? That's my lucky number!
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 12:22 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Another point in this regard is that, really, Jack's not been in charge of Torchwood 3 all that long, and throughout most of that time his concern has been with trying to reform it. (Or sleep with its various officers.) Not sure he's really had the time to go around and verify the contents of every single cupboard in the joint.

    The easier thing to believe is just that the early-20th century Torchwood simply gave a false inventory of the cabinet and nobody peeked (or if someone did, it was a Torchwood boss other than Jack, who would've likely preserved the secret.)


    I disagree. Knowing that Jack's been in charge in Torchwood for the last 8 years, couple with the fact that he's been there for over a hundred, AND the fact that he doesnt sleep, it seem strange that he doesn;t know anything about his sleeping self in the freezer?
    And with the cyberwoman thing, Tommy the guard, people nicking stuff (from the first episode), i think Jack's running a bit of a shoddy organisation there!

    I didnt enjoy the 'buried alive' plot for 1874 years to be uncovered by Torchwood, i would have preferred it it John Hart had found Jack by tracing the source of his ring, and then being found somewhere...distinctive!
    And why the big rush to freeze him anyways? He could at least have had a wash? I'm sure they could have avoided him meeting himself.
    Also, Jack hadnt aged much had he?

    It's now been established that there were THREE Captain Jack Harknesses in 1941, one frozen, one active in Torchwood and one conman posing as an USAF officer, I wonder how many others there will be in the future?

    Drink
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 05:57 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  stjohnny] It's now been established that there were THREE Captain Jack Harknesses in 1941, one frozen, one active in Torchwood and one conman posing as an USAF officer, I wonder how many others there will be in the future?

    You forgot the FOURTH - he was there for one night only with Tosh, and that one fell in love with the real Captain Jack Harkness. Wibbley-wobbley timely wimmey and all that stuff.

    supremacy is relative
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 06:30 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  silvanthalas]
    And was I the only one who was scratching their head over the way some of Gray's lines were delivered? At first I was just thinking that they had to do some rerecording of his lines, but then as you listen, at times those lines sounded more and more like Barrowman. Ok, the voice gives a real brotherly quality to the actor who plays Gray, but I was getting the impression that it was Barrowman himself dubbing lines over the actor's speaking. It was really off-putting the handful of times I caught it.


    I'm glad you said that. I thought so too. There were some lines that didn't sound like Gray at all, but like John Barrowman dubbing him in. I was wondering if it was my hearing or what, but the more I think of it (and on a second viewing) the more I think you're right - that Barrowman was called in to overdub some of those lines.

    Good episode. I'm completely and utterly shocked that they killed off TWO vital characters. One I could live with. Two? I'm just shocked.

    Still, keep in mind that Owen's state is unknown. He's dead already, and apparently can't re-die, so perhaps once his body is decayed by the radioactive fluid, he will become spirit, or zombie, or whatever. In any case, his future is open. We may yet see him again.

    Tosh, however... well, she's dead isn't she?

    What now? I wish I knew.

    And yes, I'm glad they explained away the discrepancies with THIS Tosh being the same as the Tosh of "Aliens of London" because it was never clear it was the same person, and we all knew she's no medic, but an IT expert. Now we find out that in typical Torchwood fashion, Owen was hung-over and out of communcation and Tosh had to just cover for him, pretending to be a medic.

    Funny. But I echo the problem I have with that explanation - if she had been there, Jack would know, and would know the Doctor was there too. Yet there is never any mention of it? Doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

    But a great series end. I can't wait to see what they have planned for next year.

    I like the fact that it ended just before Doctor Who started up again, so we wouldn't have a Who Gap. Still... walking fat pustules... please tell me this isn't how the season is going to go... leave that stuff for Sarah Jane Adventures. Doctor Who isn't the place...

    Sean.

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 06:35 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  rocko] My big question is- Did Jack KNOW that a future version of himself was in the freezer all this time, waiting to wake up at just the right moment??


    Of course not. When Jack left for the past, he had no idea he'd spend the nest 1900 years underground. The Jack they recovered in 1901 asked to be put into freeze on a timer that would wake him up AFTER he left 2008. The 2008 Jack couldn't possibly know.

    The only thing wrong with that explanation is - why was Jack unaware of one of the items in his vault? Surely he'd have had plenty of time to explore every single item in the vaults, including the one his future self was in.

    On the other hand, it may have been marked "DO NOT OPEN UNTIL CHRISTMAS!". (Metaphorically). Perhaps it was permanently sealed with no access given even to Jack. The dug-up Jack would have thought of that and made arrangements.

    So it's entirely possible Jack did not know he was lying in the vault all this time.

    -M-

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 06:40 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]
    Funny. But I echo the problem I have with that explanation - if she had been there, Jack would know, and would know the Doctor was there too. Yet there is never any mention of it? Doesn't make a damn bit of sense.


    Of course Jack knew, he told us that in Ep 12 of Doctor Who last season. He had to wait for a Doctor that matched up with his timeline. So, it wouldn't be out of the question for Jack to send Owen or Tosh to London where they Doctor was (which he probably knew), but it wasn't HIS Doctor, so what good would it have done? Just like he watched Rose grow up on the Powell Estate (creapy, but whatever), he had to watch the Doctors adventures and not cross timelines.

    supremacy is relative
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 06:59 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]
    [Quote  by:  rocko] My big question is- Did Jack KNOW that a future version of himself was in the freezer all this time, waiting to wake up at just the right moment??


    Of course not. When Jack left for the past, he had no idea he'd spend the nest 1900 years underground. The Jack they recovered in 1901 asked to be put into freeze on a timer that would wake him up AFTER he left 2008. The 2008 Jack couldn't possibly know.

    The only thing wrong with that explanation is - why was Jack unaware of one of the items in his vault? Surely he'd have had plenty of time to explore every single item in the vaults, including the one his future self was in.

    On the other hand, it may have been marked "DO NOT OPEN UNTIL CHRISTMAS!". (Metaphorically). Perhaps it was permanently sealed with no access given even to Jack. The dug-up Jack would have thought of that and made arrangements.

    So it's entirely possible Jack did not know he was lying in the vault all this time.

    -M-


    This was the modus operandi of Torchwwood established in a prior story where the team does not know what the sealed orders are in To the Last Man until the time they are activated...

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Sunday, April 06 2008 @ 07:10 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical] Actually, no, we haven't known this canonically until this episode. It was never stated onscreen that they were the same character, nor was it ever hinted that they might have been. Even the name "Doctor Sato" derives entirely from the credits to "Aliens of London".

    This is a misinterpretation of the term canon. Canon, with regards to fiction, means "official", and not just what is shown on screen. Regardless of the desires of the consumers of the fictional universe, it is the creator/owner of the universe who establishes (or declines to establish) the canon. I can yell until I am blue in the face that something did or did not happen, but that does not make it canon, even if most of fans side with me. {Despite claims made to the contrary on Podshock by yours truly.)

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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