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     Home »  The Patrick Troughton Era »  Second to Third Doctor - change or re-generat..
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    Second to Third Doctor - change or re-generation? Views: 1870
     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 08:10 AM EDT
    Do I need spoiler space here?
























    This happens at the end of 'The War Games'

    When the second doctor is exiled to Earth at the end of 'The War Games' part of his punishment he that he loses the knowledge of the Tardis and he is given a new appearance to keep him out of trouble - 'I'm well known there'

    So is this a re-generation ie. one 'life' used up or is it a transmogrefication (spelling?)

    Sorry if this is opening up old wounds but we are running out of re-generations - and this particular forum is a bit quiet. Twisted Evil

    So what is the general opinion?

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 09:45 AM EDT


    It certainly is not a typical regeneration for the Doctor, but throughout the history of the series it has been considered a "regeneration." After all, it was more than a change of appearance, as the second Doctor and the third Doctor are very much different from each other in their personas. Also the early stages of the third Doctor (while in hospital) seems very much suffering from the effects of a regeneration (the first time we actually see that in the series) -- "Where are my shoes?"

    It was a forced regeneration by the Time Lords, but a regeneration nonetheless.

    As for the Doctor running out of regenerations... well it is science fiction and I am sure when the time comes something is going to be worked out to give him another set of regenerations or something. It was offered to the Master once, so we know it is possible somehow.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 09:55 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Louis]

    It certainly is not a typical regeneration for the Doctor, but throughout the history of the series it has been considered a "regeneration." After all, it was more than a change of appearance, as the second Doctor and the third Doctor are very much different from each other in their personas. Also the early stages of the third Doctor (while in hospital) seems very much suffering from the effects of a regeneration (the first time we actually see that in the series) -- "Where are my shoes?"

    It was a forced regeneration by the Time Lords, but a regeneration nonetheless.

    As for the Doctor running out of regenerations... well it is science fiction and I am sure when the time comes something is going to be worked out to give him another set of regenerations or something. It was offered to the Master once, so we know it is possible somehow.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Thanks Louis.

    Didn't the Master also 'steal' his extra regenerations?

    I remember when he was on his 'last' life he almost looked like a mummy - I think his Tardis was in the form of a Grandfather clock at that time.

    I think I would settle for a regenerated memory for now! Smile

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 01:27 PM EDT
    Although in the Doctor Who Movie the Master did try to steal the Doctor's lives (via the Eye of Harmony Rolling Eyes (in the Doctor's TARDIS)), to the best of our knowledge the Doctor suffered no ill affects from this. The Master in "The Deadly Assassin" appeared to have absorbed some of the energy from the Eye of Harmony (on Gallifrey) but it had nothing to do with the Doctors lives. In "The Keeper Of Traken" the Master stole a body from a non-Gallifreyan.

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 01:48 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley] The Master in "The Deadly Assassin" appeared to have absorbed some of the energy from the Eye of Harmony (on Gallifrey) but it had nothing to do with the Doctors lives.


    That's the story I was trying to remember.

    As to the 'stealing' of lives - I didn't mean stealing lives from the doctor.

    I had some hazy recollection of him stealing or maybe 're-setting' (would be a better discription) his 'lives count' - again with your post prompting me - on Gallifrey.

    Thanks for the info, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 02:01 PM EDT
    Intrestingly enough in "The Five Doctors" the high council did offer the Master a completly new life cycle as an enticement to help the Doctor. And he didn't seem to think they were bluffing. With the Timelords now dead, I wonder if there is onther way to Reset the lifecycle of a Timelord?

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 02:11 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley] With the Timelords now dead, I wonder if there is onther way to Reset the lifecycle of a Timelord?


    Or indeed if the limit still applies.

    If it is/was an intended limit to stop themselves thinking they were 'gods' then the mechanism which controlled it - (silly mode coming) 'come in Time Lord number 9 your time is up' a la 'boating lake hire here in the UK (/silly mode) - might now be destroyed.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 03:19 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley] With the Timelords now dead, I wonder if there is onther way to Reset the lifecycle of a Timelord?


    Or indeed if the limit still applies.

    If it is/was an intended limit to stop themselves thinking they were 'gods' then the mechanism which controlled it - (silly mode coming) 'come in Time Lord number 9 your time is up' a la 'boating lake hire here in the UK (/silly mode) - might now be destroyed.

    Cheers, daveac


    That is an interesting thought... What if the limiter that controlled how many regenerations a Time Lord has was indeed somehow tied to or governed by technology on Gallifrey... If it is indeed gone now, then perhaps the limiter is also gone. Sure the Doctor still can be destroyed (i.e. caught in a explosion or something), but otherwise if his body is capable of regenerating, it will go on and on now.

    In other words, if there is no one to enforce the speed limit on your local thruways, is there indeed a speed limit?

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 03:53 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    So is this a re-generation ie. one 'life' used up or is it a transmogrefication (spelling?)

    Sorry if this is opening up old wounds but we are running out of re-generations - and this particular forum is a bit quiet. Twisted Evil

    So what is the general opinion?


    This is similar to a post I made in the general Doctor Who section of the forum. I came across an old Doctor Who Monthly where they tried rationalizing that the 1st to 2nd change wasn't a regeneration, but merely a rejuvination of the 1st Doctor.

    It makes more sense to me to have the Time Lords force trigger a regeneration than to give them some additional power.

    Yes, the William Hartnell incarnation was the first Doctor. As was stated at the time of the first rejuvenation, Time Lords live until about 1000 years old. The Hartnell Doctor was in the region of 900 years of age when rejuvenating into the Troughton Doctor of about 750 years. Do not get rejuvenation confused with regenration as were the Pertwee/Baker/Davison incarnations.

    As much as I really liked Christopher Eccleston, I was really annoyed that he abandoned the role so quickly specifically because we are getting dangerously near the end of the cycle. Barring something like the limit of twelve regenerations being lifted or reset, we only have three Doctors left. Granted, if they make each one stay for a minimum of three years that will still take us to around 2017.

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 04:08 PM EDT
    Maybe a possible explanation for the doctor continuing beyond his limited regenerations is the fact that Rose looked into the heart of the tardis, developed special powers and the doctor drew the energy and powers into himself.

    SPOILER (TORCHWOOD)



















    After all we now know that Captain Jack is not able to die after he was brought back to life by this power.

    Persumably something similar could be applied to the Doctor, the effect being he can't die and simply continues to regenerate for ever!
    Long live the Doctor Big Grin

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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 05:08 PM EDT
    Sounds dangerously close to "The Curse of the Fatal Death" with the Doctor blundering through his last lives. I'm sure that with Captn. Jack infused with the spirit of the Bad Wolf Question for lack of a better phrase, there is potiental for a diffrent spin on the idea. There have been other things that could have effected the lifespan or regeneration cycle like in "Mawdryn Undead" where the Brigadeer's interference might have had a positive or negative affect on the Doctor's eventual lifespan and in "The Rise of the Cybermen" where the Doctor used 10 years of his life to charge a device (mabey the process can go both ways). Obviously we are limited by the fact that even very good actors get typecast and the Doctor is a very high profile role. It's hard to move on easily, for example if Tennant stays with the role too long, it will affect his future projects and prospects.

    Food for thought,
    Merlin McCarley

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 08:01 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley] Sounds dangerously close to "The Curse of the Fatal Death" with the Doctor blundering through his last lives. I'm sure that with Captn. Jack infused with the spirit of the Bad Wolf Question for lack of a better phrase, there is potiental for a diffrent spin on the idea. There have been other things that could have effected the lifespan or regeneration cycle like in "Mawdryn Undead" where the Brigadeer's interference might have had a positive or negative affect on the Doctor's eventual lifespan and in "The Rise of the Cybermen" where the Doctor used 10 years of his life to charge a device (mabey the process can go both ways). Obviously we are limited by the fact that even very good actors get typecast and the Doctor is a very high profile role. It's hard to move on easily, for example if Tennant stays with the role too long, it will affect his future projects and prospects.

    Food for thought,
    Merlin McCarley



    I do love these forums - the way ideas spark other peoples ideas.

    Just thought that if Captain Jack thinks of his immortality as a curse he may ask the Doctor to take it off him - thereby solving his 'problem' in wanting to be 'normal' - and yet at the same time giving the Doctor 'unlimited' lives?

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Saturday, October 28 2006 @ 09:16 PM EDT
    The answer, ironically, may have been given to us in Torchwood. The Doctor was exposed to the same source giving Rose her powers, which she used to revive Jack. Since a byproduct is apparently immortality, maybe something similar has been conveyed to the Doctor. Although, this would seem to imply that the Doctor would no longer even need to regenerate, so maybe we're right back in the same mess we started with.


    EDIT: Whoops! My browser didn't refresh properly. I see others have cottoned onto the Torchwood idea already . . .

    "I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." JNT, 1986
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     Tuesday, October 31 2006 @ 05:35 PM EST
    The two regenerations that interest me the most are the 4th to 5th and the 5th to 6th.

    Before T. Baker became P. Davison, there was the ghostly "Watcher" wandering around in the background for part of Logopolis; a kind of disembodied spirit version that seemed to dissolve into T. Baker's body and become P. Davison. And I think it was Nyssa who said, "He was the Doctor all along." It make you wonder if the Doctor really lives on some other dimension plane and that if he kows something bad is coming, he can pop into a new body when the going gets tough to better manuever around the Universe.

    And then when P. Davison became C. Baker, Davison's Doctor makes the remark, "Might regenerate...feels different this time," which could be open to speculation about his ability to regenerate in a specific pattern or within certain limitations.

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     Wednesday, November 01 2006 @ 12:49 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  JeffL] The two regenerations that interest me the most are the 4th to 5th and the 5th to 6th.

    Before T. Baker became P. Davison, there was the ghostly "Watcher" wandering around in the background for part of Logopolis; a kind of disembodied spirit version that seemed to dissolve into T. Baker's body and become P. Davison. And I think it was Nyssa who said, "He was the Doctor all along." It make you wonder if the Doctor really lives on some other dimension plane and that if he kows something bad is coming, he can pop into a new body when the going gets tough to better manuever around the Universe.

    And then when P. Davison became C. Baker, Davison's Doctor makes the remark, "Might regenerate...feels different this time," which could be open to speculation about his ability to regenerate in a specific pattern or within certain limitations.


    I was never happy with that whole explanation of The Watcher -- or what little explanation was actually given. Supposedly, just like the third Doctor (Jon Pertwee) had another Time Lord help usher in his regeneration, the fourth Doctor (Tom Baker) needed similar assistance which he had foreseen somehow and this Watcher was some sort of splinter of himself... I am not 100% sure.

    When the fifth Doctor (Peter Davison) explains that he was not sure if was going to regenerate this time, stating that it feels different this time. I just took it to mean that he wasn't sure if he was just going to die or regenerate. The poison could have been too lethal it was going to kill him.

    I don't believe being able to regenerate is any guarantee against death for a Time Lord. There is always the possibility the Doctor or another Time Lord could die without being able to regenerate.

    Cheers,
    Louis

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