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The6thDoctor
Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 44
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 Tuesday, January 17 2006 @ 10:40 AM EST |
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I just got through watching my VHS copy of Logopolis... Love that story... I guess it came out around the time that I started to understand Dr. Who more rather than just watching it.... So now I am revisiting Dr. Who again, for a few reasons.
One is the new series, Two is the fact that my six year old son now Loaves Dr. Who and wants to watch everything, including to my surprise my old series tapes. and Number 3 is Podshock! You guys are great.
Anyway back to the topic, I loved and still love this story, the whole idea of repairing the chamelon circuit and The Master are just great.
The one thing that struck me one watching this episode was how tired Tom Baker looked... it is a very serious tone in this episode and he looks very worn. But I'm not sure if it was Tom or the Doctor.... i.e. was it scripted as such with the fact that he was due to Regenerate?
There are a few things that bug me though, how did the watcher bring Nyssa to Logopolis, why would The Doctor even bring her there, even though she was looking for her father. But the biggest issue I have is the voice over at the end "He was The Doctor all the time" I just cringe every time I hear it.
I hope when the restoration team get to this story that they try and fix the way that The Watcher merges with The Doctor, I loved that whole set-up, with The Doctor's impending Regeneration, I wonder how much The Watcher actually told him during their meeting... "hey, when your hanging for your life on a huge Radio Telescope.... just let go dude, it'll be fine".
Love to hear your thoughts.
Next Stop... The Colin Baker Forum!!!!
The6thDoctor
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"Oh and Yes... I did interview Gigi Edgley.. just in case you were wondering... yes Gigi... Chiana from Farscape, Yup I interviewed her... in person you know...
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Omega
Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 62
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| Tuesday, January 17 2006 @ 12:01 PM EST |
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| I'll have to watch Logopolis again to figure out exactly why they say he was the doctor all along, but I think I know why Nyssa was there. As far as storyline goes, in the proceeding story, Castrovalva, all 3 companions are necessary in helping the doctor though his regeneration sickness. From a production stand point, the team working on the show was still unsure if Nyssa would be a continuing companion and for how long, which is part of why she is not in the later story Kinda. |
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"Hero! I should have been a God!"
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JeffL
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 177
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| Sunday, March 12 2006 @ 09:42 AM EST |
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| I think "He was the Doctor all along" is just an assumption by the companions. I think it was Nyssa who said it. I wouldn't put too much stock into that statement. If the Doctor had said it, then we might have all kinds of new theories about regenerations, Time Lord souls, etc. |
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hdutch007
Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 340
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| Sunday, March 12 2006 @ 01:50 PM EST |
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I just watched Logopolis about a week ago. I too was really taken aback by the "it was the doctor all the time" bit. I didn't get it at all. I just thought "huh?"
I didn't really see any explanation or clues other than the merging. I was wondering if it was ever adressed in any later stories.
Also, I too noticed how worn out Tom Baker looked. I have to think that it was him, not the script. he was coming off the longest run of any doctor and I am sure that he was carrying a heavy load. Was it just me, or does he have zero chemistry with Matthew Waterhouse? He seemed like he just wanted to be done with the whole thing. |
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Heath Holland
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Louis
Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 3075
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| Sunday, March 12 2006 @ 02:03 PM EST |
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The whole Watcher concept being the Doctor all along... I never really got either. It was never really fleshed out (no pun intended... as we do see the Watcher flesh out when he merges with the Doctor to become the 5th Doctor)... I don't think there were any real explanations of what it was all about.
I remember saying "huh?" the first time I saw it as well... many years ago. But I haven't seen it in ages now...
Cheers,
Louis |
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☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Sunday, March 19 2006 @ 10:55 PM EST |
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The Watcher's easy. He's the (highlight for 2005 spoilers) Bad Wolf, right?  Or at least he works for the same big blue box. |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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James Brown 1977
Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 52
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| Monday, March 20 2006 @ 08:50 AM EST |
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| An excellant story and a good one to finish the 4th Doctor era off with great stuff. |
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Dr Who is back baby Yeah !!!
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jeffreysg
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 221
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| Friday, July 21 2006 @ 04:11 PM EDT |
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| From a writers standpoint, why even add the Watcher to the story? It just confused everyone and no explaination (as far as I recall) was given as to why the 'watcher' was needed. No other Doctor needed one. The third Doctor's body was destroyed by radiation, the fifth Doctor's body was poisoned, the seventh Doctor's body was shot and butchered by hospital doctors. The ninth Doctor regenerated as a result of the power from the heart of the Tardis. Nope, no watchers in any of those stories. |
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tarashnat
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 3062
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| Friday, July 21 2006 @ 04:27 PM EDT |
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The Watcher was needed to get Nyssa as it was not known that she would be a companion until late in the game, so instead of a major rewrite, the character of the Watcher was added to retrieve Nyssa, and to move along the plot a bit, once the character was added.
Taras |
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Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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jeffreysg
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 221
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| Friday, July 21 2006 @ 05:10 PM EDT |
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| The writers could have found a different way to bring her to Logopolis, I'm sure if we put our heads together we could whip something out fairly quickly also. Watcher was not needed, IMHO. |
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Will-I-Am
Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 146
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| Friday, July 21 2006 @ 06:17 PM EDT |
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This is probably a reach here, but looking back over the years at the whole Watcher thing, it always occured to me that it might have been an almost metaphorical allegory to just how long Tom Baker's reign as the Doctor had gone for, and that it was time for a change. Almost like suggesting he had been so strong and seemingly unfaltering in his 4th incarnation, that maybe it was even the Time Lords forcing the issue of him taking a 5th form, rather than still residing in his current one any longer. Perhaps they have unspoken laws about the overall span of one's regenerative cycles?
The fact that he ultimately fell from the tower at the end certainly didn't help matters at all, meaning a regeneration was inevitable after that accident no matter what, but then the Watcher merely stepped in to help ease the process in the moment of need. Otherwise, one could suppose that it might've even been a confrontational situation at some point, almost backing the Doctor's apparent unease at the sight and mention of the Watcher near the beginning of the story.
The 4th Doctor seemingly broke more rules than the 3rd before him or the 5th after, as the 2nd and 6th Doctors respectively also took a lot of heat from the Gallifreyan council, etc. - perhaps hinting at the ill fate that McGann's Doctor might've befallen as well, leading into the Time War and the 9th Doctor.
Could this mean some heavy revelations are indeed in store from the Face of Boe next season? One that in particular, might hold true to this odd/even pattern in his regenerative cycle and said ties to his "home world," (c'mon RTD, SAY IT - GALLIFREY) and perhaps land the 10th Doctor in some hot water with the "supposedly dead" Time Lords? I think so...
And - still wish they'd left the reference to this story in "The Idiot's Lantern." Might've raised the game on the overall quality of that episode with another classic series connection left intact. But I digress... |
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Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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hdutch007
Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 340
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| Friday, July 21 2006 @ 07:45 PM EDT |
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| maybe when Logopolis comes out on dvd next year they will shed a bit of light on the whole watcher situation.I don't see how they can ignore it on the commentary. |
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Heath Holland
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Milamber
Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 146
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| Sunday, July 23 2006 @ 10:17 PM EDT |
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This is one of my favourite stories from when I was young. The Watcher was incredibly cool and mysterious back then and I still remember how chilling it was watching the Master pulling the policeman into his TARDIS and miniturising people. I watched it again recently and have no gripes. And it's the best regeneration, IMO.
Anyone else think John Fraser (The Monitor) looked like Anthony Ainley?
Did some digging around for information on the Watcher and found the following info on Logopolis and a post another forum about the Watcher's function.
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sps/serials/5v.html
That's a very good question! I've had a look in a few reference books for the simplest answer, and the best thing I've found is this extensive quote from In-Vision's excellent edition on "Logopolis": "The Watcher stemmed from conversations between [Christopher H] Bidmead and Barry Letts...PLANET OF SPIDERS had shown exceptionally gifted Time Lords capable of projecting their future selves ahead of their present incarnations. But whereas K'Anpo had been skilled enough to manifest his future body in full, Bidmead felt there was more of an exciting opportunity to be had if the Doctor's next body was brought into being subconsciously as a partially formed, embryonic
figure, triggered by the impending nature of the cataclysm forewarned by the sounding of the TARDIS Cloister Bell. The Watcher could materialise as a semi-corporeal entity and, knowing the future, could advise his former self.
But only at the pre-destined moment would their two selves merge and complete the regeneration of the Doctor's new physical body."
Or, as Nyssa says in the closing seconds, "The Watcher! So he was the Doctor all the time!" |
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hdutch007
Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 340
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| Sunday, July 23 2006 @ 11:00 PM EDT |
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| my head hurts just reading that. |
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Heath Holland
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capricorn1
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 395
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| Monday, July 24 2006 @ 10:59 AM EDT |
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This to is one of my favourite stories.
I liked the watcher character, I don't know why - but I did. I like to put it in the context that the previous Doctor's had regenerated before their time but this incarnations time was up and that if he hadn't of fallen he would have regenerated anyway.
I know there is nothing to support my theory as such but I personally like the explanation and it does 'fit'. |
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