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jeffreysg
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 221
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 Monday, July 24 2006 @ 01:14 PM EDT |
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| I was thinking sort of along the same lines. What if the Doctor sensed his time was coming, not because of falling, but because of the Master. The Master came close to killing the Doctor several times and it would make sense that the Doctor might have a sort of 'precognition' of this happening. At the time, the fall was the best option for the Doctor because had he climbed back up, the Master was waiting for him; ready and willing to kill him. Thus by falling from the tower, he 'cheated' his actual death and had the Watcher redy for him. |
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Milamber
Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 146
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| Monday, July 24 2006 @ 08:01 PM EDT |
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Just in case this entire thread hasn't yet done all our heads in. The reintroduction of Logopolis via audio:
http://www.drwhoguide.com/unbound04.htm |
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mindless
Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 50
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| Wednesday, September 13 2006 @ 11:50 AM EDT |
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sorry to add to this thread after so long, but ive just finished watching it myself again (for the 500th time probably), and noticed something about tegan which i hadn't picked up on before. it kind of frustrated me a tiny bit how easily she falls into the role of the companion and how her character seems to accept the whole situation instantly. when the doctor and adric discover her in the tardis, she kicks up a huge fuss but as soon as she steps out of the tardis onto logopolis and meets the moniter it's like nothing has happenned. nothing seems to phase her apart from the death of the logopolitans and her aunty vanessa (which even manages to be sweep under the carpet and forgot about 2 seconds later). a funny way for a simple wannabe flight attendant from 1980's earth to react. i know that they had to get the story rolling so couldn't focus on developing her character as much, but in retrospect maybe it would have been better if tegan was brought in after castrovalva (although that does slightly shit on the theory that the doctor needed his 4 companions during that "difficult" 4th regeneration).
despite all that, this has always been one of my all time favourite stories since i was young. i love the watcher, he adds something spooky and unexplainable about the story which i LOVE! it's just funny that i never noticed the tegan thing until after watching so much of the eccleston and tennant stories, as i never thought the new series would taint, or change, my view of older stories. infact i'm more disapointed about the lack of tie ins with the old series in the new one, but that's for another post! |
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daveac
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2636
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| Wednesday, September 13 2006 @ 03:53 PM EDT |
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[Quote by: mindless]
i love the watcher, he adds something spooky and unexplainable about the story which i LOVE!
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Yes I't one of my favs stories - and I agree with the points about Tegan - who I liked a lot.
But the ONE thing about Logoplis I didn't like was the Watcher.
Cheers, daveac |
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daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP,
cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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shockeye07
Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 215
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| Friday, February 16 2007 @ 05:04 AM EST |
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| Sorry but I could'nt stand Tegan. Always had a face like she was sucking a lemon. Constant moaning. I thought the Watcher was a cool idea |
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Friday, February 16 2007 @ 05:24 AM EST |
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| [Quote by: hdutch007] maybe when Logopolis comes out on dvd next year they will shed a bit of light on the whole watcher situation.I don't see how they can ignore it on the commentary. |
| | I'm curious to know whether the "Logopolis" DVD does indeed add something to the Watcher debate. It's interesting to note that Big Finish have recently included some new Watcher material in a recent release as well. |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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merlin_mccarley
Registered: 07/30/06
Posts: 733
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| Friday, February 16 2007 @ 08:43 AM EST |
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[Quote by: Milamber] This is one of my favourite stories from when I was young. The Watcher was incredibly cool and mysterious back then and I still remember how chilling it was watching the Master pulling the policeman into his TARDIS and miniturising people. I watched it again recently and have no gripes. And it's the best regeneration, IMO.
Anyone else think John Fraser (The Monitor) looked like Anthony Ainley?
Did some digging around for information on the Watcher and found the following info on Logopolis and a post another forum about the Watcher's function.
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sps/serials/5v.html
That's a very good question! I've had a look in a few reference books for the simplest answer, and the best thing I've found is this extensive quote from In-Vision's excellent edition on "Logopolis": "The Watcher stemmed from conversations between [Christopher H] Bidmead and Barry Letts...PLANET OF SPIDERS had shown exceptionally gifted Time Lords capable of projecting their future selves ahead of their present incarnations. But whereas K'Anpo had been skilled enough to manifest his future body in full, Bidmead felt there was more of an exciting opportunity to be had if the Doctor's next body was brought into being subconsciously as a partially formed, embryonic
figure, triggered by the impending nature of the cataclysm forewarned by the sounding of the TARDIS Cloister Bell. The Watcher could materialise as a semi-corporeal entity and, knowing the future, could advise his former self.
But only at the pre-destined moment would their two selves merge and complete the regeneration of the Doctor's new physical body."
Or, as Nyssa says in the closing seconds, "The Watcher! So he was the Doctor all the time!" |
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The Cho Je/K'Anpo situation was my understanding as well, but as that regeneration was virtually seemless, the T. Baker to Davison regeneration was the most problematic for the Doctor. So if the intent was to ease the process, it seemed to make things worse for his future self and then why bother unless it was "predestined". It is a problem we will have to ponder.
Cheers,
Mike M. |
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I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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daveac
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2636
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| Friday, February 16 2007 @ 11:17 AM EST |
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[Quote by: merlin_mccarley]
The Cho Je/K'Anpo situation was my understanding as well, but as that regeneration was virtually seemless, the T. Baker to Davison regeneration was the most problematic for the Doctor. So if the intent was to ease the process, it seemed to make things worse for his future self and then why bother unless it was "predestined". It is a problem we will have to ponder.
Cheers,
Mike M. |
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The Cho Je/K'Anpo change over seemed to point to the fact that for the 'wiser' or 'senior' Time Lords each successive regeneration became easier as they were able to reach some higher state of contemplation and preparation - not as it seems with our Time Lord.
But I suppose 'our' Time Lord is far more 'active' and meddlesome and therefore has a high number of sudden, violent regenerations allowing no time to get into the 'correct' mental state.
Cheers, daveac |
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daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP,
cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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DarthSkeptical
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1129
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| Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 02:39 PM EST |
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Y'know, I thought the DVD release of this would somehow make me return to my childhood love of the story. But it doesn't. It just reveals the thing to be all setup and no resolution, dosn't it?
I mean, the two big plot points — the end of the universe and the regeneration of the Doctor — are never explained. We've talked of the nonsense of the Watcher elsewhere in the thread. But the far more egregious sin of the script is that the universe isn't actually saved by the Doctor's sacrifice. In fact, the thing which precipitates the Doctor's regeneration would actually seem to have prevented the solution to the story's major plot. By disconnecting the cable atop the Pharos antenna, the Doctor does stop the Master from blackmailing the universe, but he also undoes the contraption that the episode has otherwise told us will save the universe from decay.
Had "Castrovalva" actually continued the plot of "Logopolis", it might be forgiven, but sadly we never really get an answer to how the Doctor helped the universe survive the destruction of Logopolis.
Though largely engaging for the first three-and-a-half episodes, the last 15 minutes of Tom Baker are perhaps his most unsatisfying. |
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"I think of myself as ambitious in casting terms, and I know that Bonnie [Langford] has the potential to make the part totally unirritating . . ." — JNT, 1986
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tarashnat
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 3062
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| Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 03:31 PM EST |
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| [Quote by: mindless] it kind of frustrated me a tiny bit how easily she falls into the role of the companion and how her character seems to accept the whole situation instantly. when the doctor and adric discover her in the tardis, she kicks up a huge fuss but as soon as she steps out of the tardis onto logopolis and meets the moniter it's like nothing has happenned. nothing seems to phase her apart from the death of the logopolitans and her aunty vanessa (which even manages to be sweep under the carpet and forgot about 2 seconds later). a funny way for a simple wannabe flight attendant from 1980's earth to react. |
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Stewardesses need to give the appearance of being calm even in stressful situations. And they are used to entering a confined space in one location and exiting it in a different time (zone) and place. I don't see this as that big a streetch for that type of character. I'd expect Teagan to be the companion to most easily deal with travelling via the TARDIS. |
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Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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