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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  RTD : Is it wrong to be pleased he's leaving..
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    RTD : Is it wrong to be pleased he's leaving? Views: 1053
     Thursday, May 22 2008 @ 09:17 PM EDT
    I love new Doctor Who... I have a tremendous respect for RTD and am deeply grateful to him for bringing back my favourite show in a modern, unique and "fantastic" fashion. I think it is important to remember that RTD has been instrumental and involved in every single episode of new Doctor Who and has to take a lot of credit for every glorious episode of Doctor Who we have had since its return in 2005 whether he wrote the episode or not!

    However, I am glad that he is handing over his duties as head script writer and executive producer to somebody else!!!

    I was a bit concerned by Ken's comments on "Aftershock" where he seems to suggest that those who are glad RTD is leaving are somehow being disloyal to the show (and to RTD for that matter). I thought nothing of it until Dave started a thread about RTD's legacy but not wanting any negative comments about his time as chief show runner. Why...? Surely his mistakes contributes to his legacy as much as his successes.


    The fact of the matter is, that a large factor of Docter Who's longevity is the continual change in its creators, both in front of the camera and behind it. Ken criticizes the fans in the late eighties for wanting JNT to leave, but the general consensus amongst fans is that JNT should have left years before the show was axed (and I suspect JNT himself would have agreed!) and that it was a detriment to the show that he did not

    We do not want current Doctor Who to get stale and there is no denying that each season of new Doctor Who has had a certain formulaic quality. I, for one, am looking forward to a new formula!

    Yes, I have problems with some of RTD's scripts("Aliens Of London", "Voyage Of The Damned" etc) but there are also an awful lot that I adore ("Gridlock, "Utopia", "TLOTT") and as I stated above I am incredibly grateful to him and would never "knock him".

    My point is, nobody should feel bad if they are pleased he is going and looking forward to their favourite show being renewed, rejuvinated and (...dare I say it), regenerated!!!

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     Thursday, May 22 2008 @ 09:20 PM EDT
    well,

    he did the whole bring back an old enemy thing each session.

    it was fun with the daleks & the cybermen but it got old with the master.

    but he also had good episodes.

    "Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth."
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     Thursday, May 22 2008 @ 09:38 PM EDT
    Its a great point Dalzo but I suspect (or hope!) Ken meant those factions of fandom who are never reasonable and don't listen to both sides of the arguement, who seem to be ones who are glad to see the back of RTD. Or perhaps its their pure joy at Steven Moffatt being appointed. Who knows? However, We must never forget the work RTD did in bringing the show back.

    The same can be said of the 'RTD is god' lot as well. (see the reference there Wink )

    I'm going to have another listen to the VOTD review on podshock, where people were calling for RTD to go. I found it pretty annoying that some people wanted someone to resign from their dream job because he wrote an episode that they didn't like. And now its all 'cheers RTD, you've been great' and won't hear a bad word said against him. Fandom can be a fickle lady, that's my point. (and thats no swipe on laides btw, I love them! Razz )

    Please check out my blog, as I attempt to watch and review EVERY Doctor Who episode! http://journeythroughtimeandspace.blogspot.com/
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     Thursday, May 22 2008 @ 10:52 PM EDT


    The show thrives on it's changing hands of producers as well as the lead role. It's no secret, it's what kept the series going for so long.

    Changing of producers means that something new and exciting is happening with the series. As with any change, some will welcome it, some will not.

    The situation in 1988 with JNT, well yes, JNT himself stated he wanted to leave the series... but there were other forces at work here that had little to do with fandom. We were faced with a producer who wanted to move on to other projects but was forced to stay and a lead actor who wanted to stay who was forced to leave. Then the series was forced to go into a direction it was not naturally heading in... and yes, I can understand why there was some concern among fans at the time. Hell, I was one of them. No, I was not calling out for the dismal of JNT or the cancelation of the series... but I know my eyes rolled more than once during that first series after Colin Baker was forced out. Flying buses in space, candy men, etc. was not the Doctor Who I expected or wanted.

    Perhaps this is one of the reasons I get so concerned when I see the series today utilize really "silly science" in its story telling.

    So I think we can be very appreciative of RTD. What he did for the series in bringing it back. We will forever be grateful for that. Even with him stepping down as Executive Producer and Lead Writer in 2010, we would still like to see him continue to stay involved with the series writing stories here and there.

    Yes, I think we can be both excited about Steven Moffat taking over, and at the same time be appreciative of what RTD has done and hopefully will continue to do for the series.

    Cheers,
    Louis


    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 01:25 AM EDT
    I agree that what he did for Doctor Who was nothing short of bringing it back not only on TV, but back to the excellent ratings, a great cast, and quality guest stars. However, I am glad to see someone else taking the reigns. I think RTD spent an adequate amount of time on the show, more so than some of the other great producers on the show like Philip Hindcliffe, and that its a good time to pass it on to someone else. I look forward to seeing the show be reinvented once again.

    "Hero! I should have been a God!"
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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 03:46 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Dalzo] However, I am glad that he is handing over his duties as head script writer and executive producer to somebody else!!!


    The thing is - so is RTD! He said in an interview back in January in [i]THe Guardian[/i] newspaper that he has enjoyed immensely the fun and challenge of working on the show but that he's looking forward to a day that isn't built around half a dozen daily problems that come from working on the show.

    [Quote  The fact of the matter is, that a large factor of Docter Who's longevity is the continual change in its creators, both in front of the camera and behind it. Ken criticizes the fans in the late eighties for wanting JNT to leave, but the general consensus amongst fans is that JNT should have left years before the show was axed (and I suspect JNT himself would have agreed!) and that it was a detriment to the show that he did not


    Indeed, JNT later said that he regretted not leaving earlier and rejecting offers for other work at the BBC to stick with "Doctor Who".

    I think the key difference is one of security. JNT was in his first producer's job and hadn't had the time to build a reputation. Had he left with Davison in 1984 what was by BBC standards a well-paid, high profile job, he was understandably concerned that he could get a similar post. Especially at a time when there was a lot of contraction in the UK TV industry. Having "produced a science fiction drama" on your CV would have been of little use when science-fiction shows were no longer favoured by the TV channels.

    Conversely RTD knows that when he leaves this show, its onto other projects. Its a much easier choice and one that's been planned for some time now.

    One thing coming from the rumour mill that has been interesting is the suggestion that the BBC viewed RTD as so integral to the show's success that they were considering stopping the show if he left. But he still said he was leaving. Then the BBC saw sense and hired Moffat.

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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 05:59 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Dalzo]
    I thought nothing of it until Dave started a thread about RTD's legacy but not wanting any negative comments about his time as chief show runner. Why...? Surely his mistakes contributes to his legacy as much as his successes.



    Please don't think that I only have praise for RTD - I'm on record as being annoyed with a number of his ideas - especially VOTD.

    But I do think his contribution to Dr Who deserved a thread of it's own without it becoming a pro/con battleground - hence the suggestion to people to start a different thread if they so wished.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 06:09 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  Dalzo]
    I thought nothing of it until Dave started a thread about RTD's legacy but not wanting any negative comments about his time as chief show runner. Why...? Surely his mistakes contributes to his legacy as much as his successes.



    Please don't think that I only have praise for RTD - I'm on record as being annoyed with a number of his ideas - especially VOTD.

    But I do think his contribution to Dr Who deserved a thread of it's own without it becoming a pro/con battleground - hence the suggestion to people to start a different thread if they so wished.

    Cheers, daveac


    I have listened to your review of Voyage Of The Damned and know you have had issues with RTD and were certainly not afraid to state them Laughing Out Loud However, I think it is wrong to discuss his time running Doctor Who without mentioning his mistakes... They are a part of his legacy and so should be discussed in conjunction with his glories! I would hope that we all mature enough to discuss them without attacking RTD.

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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 06:13 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Dalzo]
    I have listened to your review of Voyage Of The Damned and know you have had issues with RTD and were certainly not afraid to state them Laughing Out Loud However, I think it is wrong to discuss his time running Doctor Who without mentioning his mistakes... They are a part of his legacy and so should be discussed in conjunction with his glories! I would hope that we all mature enough to discuss them without attacking RTD.


    Well I wouldn't wish to be seen as underestimating our forum members.

    If it's OK with you - and Louis or Taras think it a good idea - I don't mind the two threads being merged.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 06:51 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  Dalzo]
    I have listened to your review of Voyage Of The Damned and know you have had issues with RTD and were certainly not afraid to state them Laughing Out Loud However, I think it is wrong to discuss his time running Doctor Who without mentioning his mistakes... They are a part of his legacy and so should be discussed in conjunction with his glories! I would hope that we all mature enough to discuss them without attacking RTD.


    Well I wouldn't wish to be seen as underestimating our forum members.

    If it's OK with you - and Louis or Taras think it a good idea - I don't mind the two threads being merged.

    Cheers, daveac


    I have no problem with that although it may not be necessary as I didn't start this thread to make criticisms of RTD's work. I only started this thread after hearing "Aftershock" and Ken's rant (which normally I enjoy as I love and share his passion for this show). The thing is that I have held the belief that RTD should leave since about midway through season three when I saw the same structure in season emerging (one introduction episode, one historical, one future, two parter bringing back old enemies etc). Ken's rant seemed like an attack on all who had been calling for him to leave (not that I really called for him to leave... Who am I gonna call? Wink ). Then when I saw your request not to include negative points in a discussion on RTD's legacy I started to think that suddenly it was taboo to criticize some of RTD's decisions! I just wanted to make the point that although I am very pleased he is leaving that does not mean I do not respect him and am thankful to him for bringing the show back. And also to make the point that there is nothing wrong with discussing some of his mistakes of which there are, in my opinion, quite a few, without detracting from the fact that he brought Doctor Who back brilliantly and far exceeded my expectations way back in 2005!

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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 09:03 AM EDT
    maybe its because we remember how bad it got with JNT that we fear anyone saying bad things. when its like... its like a family member who does cool things but you feel you can critisize when... when they dont meet your expectations 100%..

    because they are family you can say such things.. but if an outsider said them then you would be defensive..

    Somewhere the tea is getting cold
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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 09:58 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Justice]he did the whole bring back an old enemy thing each session.

    it was fun with the daleks & the cybermen but it got old with the master.

    I have no problem with this at all. I love seeing the classic series references, whether its via an on-screen appearence or a passing joke. I even loved seeing The Master come back. In my book, Utopia is 2nd to only Blink from last season (actually, those are the only 2 good points from last season...but more on that later). I wasn't a fan of The Master's finale last year, and I think that's why his character may have lost some points in my mind, but I'm still glad to have seen him back.

    I not going to say I'm happy RTD is leaving, as that seems very cold, and let's face it - we're just talking about a TV production job here...not something terribly important in life as much as being the leader of a country, or the CEO of a big corporation - in which criticism is fair game. However, if I had to give some criticism, my 2 biggest nit-picks of his tenure would be (recent) script choices, and along with that the scarcity of off-world stories:

    - I'll reiterate something that I've said recently, that since the series 2 finale, it's been pretty much downhill (with a couple exceptions). I doubt there will ever be a time when I won't watch it, but the show and RTD are not above criticism, and without it the show will never get better. It doesn't bother me, as others have mentioned, about the repetitive patterns we see each series (intro episode, historical, 2-parter that somehow ties into finale, etc...). If you've got good stories, then you shouldn't really even notice this.

    - I'm not entirely buying the financial-burden aspect of why we don't see as many off-world adventures. I know the BBC doesn't give him a blank check to do what he wants, but surely as the executive producer of one of the BBC's most popular shows they give him some leeway. I did a quick scan of the new series stories, and I think Louis pointed this out in another thread, that every story so far from the new series has either been set on Earth or involved humans in some way. *Every story*. Hey, I love humanity as much as the next guy, but this is ridiculous.

    Negatives aside, on a more positive note we will always forever be indebted to RTD for bringing our beloved Who back to TV. He has written some great stories (Bad Wolf, TPotW, Utopia), and a few clunkers (including the worst Who story of all-time, which I will not speak of *cough*L&M*cough*). He's been able to get Who aired here in the USA with a lag-time of just a couple of weeks from the original UK broadcast, as opposed to weeks, months, or years that it's taken in the past. Similarly, USA folk no longer think of Who as "that show with the guy in the scarf". Guest stars that would've consided appearing in Who to be career suicide are now practically coming out in droves to appear on the show.

    Anyway, thank you RTD, for taking our critique in stride, and we will always be in your debt.

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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 10:25 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  sgb1975]

    I not going to say I'm happy RTD is leaving, as that seems very cold, and let's face it - we're just talking about a TV production job here...not something terribly important in life as much as being the leader of a country, or the CEO of a big corporation - in which criticism is fair game. However, if I had to give some criticism, my 2 biggest nit-picks of his tenure would be (recent) script choices, and along with that the scarcity of off-world stories:


    - I'm not entirely buying the financial-burden aspect of why we don't see as many off-world adventures. I know the BBC doesn't give him a blank check to do what he wants, but surely as the executive producer of one of the BBC's most popular shows they give him some leeway. I did a quick scan of the new series stories, and I think Louis pointed this out in another thread, that every story so far from the new series has either been set on Earth or involved humans in some way. *Every story*. Hey, I love humanity as much as the next guy, but this is ridiculous.



    To be fair, this season will have had (at least) three off world stories. Considering there were none in the first season this is pretty good! True, all (so far) have featured humans and this is a little wearing. It is interesting that in the commentary for The Unicorn And The Wasp, RTD said that originally they weren't going to make the humans... erm... human. They discussed it and it was late in the day that they decided that they were humans after all... A shame as it wouldn't have detracted from the story at all if both sides were alien!

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     Friday, May 23 2008 @ 10:31 AM EDT
    In terms of his scripts choices - I would say that bar one, they have all been great - even if I found myself having a negative attitude to one or other of them, this was always balanced by those fans who had an opposite view. It seems to me that many of the episodes have provoked very extreme love-it-or-hate-it reactions. For me, this is proof positive they they are doing their job well, taking risks, trying to innovate. At least trying to do something different. You cannoy escape from the truthful old adage that you can't please all the people all of the time. So you at least try to please half of them.
    The worst crime is to be boring (this is my main critisicm of Fear Her - it's seems that most fans' reaction was: yeah...and?).
    No, I think to inspire heated debate, love and hate, proves that as a producer/script editor you are doing the best job that you can.

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