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     Home »  The David Tennant Era »  S4e9 Forest of the Dead [Spoilers]
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    S4e9 Forest of the Dead [Spoilers] Views: 4858
     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 03:48 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  daveac] What I'm trying to say (badly I think) is we need a storyline:-

    'no your dead...not pretend dead....that's it...hand in your TARDIS key and the actors bathroom key...go on...toodleloo..honestly I mean it...no second chances...close the door on the way out...'

    Yes, I agree and that's sort of what worries me about Rose's return. That it devalues the poignancy of her departure. Almost like this desire by film studios to keep doing sequels to the same film. It worked once so why think of something new let's just retread old ground. I hope I'm wrong.

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     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 03:57 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Idiom] Almost like this desire by film studios to keep doing sequels to the same film. It worked once so why think of something new let's just retread old ground. I hope I'm wrong.

    Is that like the desire for more Doctor Who episodes. It worked in the 60s and 70s, so why think of something new let's just retread old ground. [ sarcasm mode off ]

    Daleks don't accept apologies! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED!
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     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 03:59 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Idiom]
    [Quote  by:  daveac] What I'm trying to say (badly I think) is we need a storyline:-

    'no your dead...not pretend dead....that's it...hand in your TARDIS key and the actors bathroom key...go on...toodleloo..honestly I mean it...no second chances...close the door on the way out...'

    Yes, I agree and that's sort of what worries me about Rose's return. That it devalues the poignancy of her departure. Almost like this desire by film studios to keep doing sequels to the same film. It worked once so why think of something new let's just retread old ground. I hope I'm wrong.


    Agreed. I believe everyone's thinking this, in the back of their mind, at least. "Doomsday" was perfection in how they were split up - a lot rides on how this is handled at season-end to keep from completely derailing the success of that finale/story arc.

    That said, I'd hope they knew that much before even attempting any of this. Still - in knowing from some additional spoilage floating around out there, namely that *Rose is in this year's 'X-mas special*, I fear the worst in some ways. It sounds like Series 2 will become more and more dispensable, if this comes to pass.

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 05:26 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  tarashnat] Is that like the desire for more Doctor Who episodes. It worked in the 60s and 70s, so why think of something new let's just retread old ground. [ sarcasm mode off ]

    I've got nothing against reimagining classics - it's been done for centuries, even Shakespeare indulged. I love new Who; I love new Battlestar Galactica.
    But I hope that old ground is not retrod quite so soon.
    There is a fine balance IMO between setting themes and motifs, in decorating the artistic palette with recurring symbols and looking for a lazy quick fix.
    I'm not accusing the Doctor Who production team of this yet. I just hope that they don't, is all.

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     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 06:31 PM EDT
    I enjoy watching the new series, but I think Dr. Who is more of a drama show with a Sci-Fi theme, then a real Sci-Fi show. All the episodes that take place on Earth are to bring drama to the companions by involving their families and loved ones(examples abound in this and previous seasons). As in the case with this 2 parter, all the loose ends are so they can be used to dramatic effect in the future. Really, if there is no big deal leaving that diary for anyone else to read why didn't the Dr. just read it himself? Spoilers, right, but if spoilers are that bad, then why leave them around for someone else to mess with? Someone who may not understand the potential danger of messing with future events.

    If I remember old episodes correctly, the Dr. would often work with some locals involved with the situation, then leave. Now it seems everyone the Dr. works with must be a companion or have some other close tie to the Dr. Bring back Rose, but I hope it is for a good reason, and not just for the drama of bringing back a loved character.

    My little theory is that with the Time Lords gone, the Dr. is the top dog, and they need to build up companions to be equal partners, instead of just travel partners. I have a feeling that Rose is going to turn out to have done several "impossible" things, besides traveling between alternate realities.

    Overall I thought this 2 part episode was enjoyable to watch. I think the River Song relationship was for drama, and it did not really add to the story for me she could have just as easily been a 1 time character. And Dona crying is getting a bit boring. I like Dona but do they really need to make her cry every other episode. Did the partners cry this much in previous years? I don't really recall it seeming this often.

    Oh well, can't wait for the new episode.

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     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 07:12 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  TeaTimeLord] I enjoy watching the new series, but I think Dr. Who is more of a drama show with a Sci-Fi theme, then a real Sci-Fi show. All the episodes that take place on Earth are to bring drama to the companions by involving their families and loved ones(examples abound in this and previous seasons). As in the case with this 2 parter, all the loose ends are so they can be used to dramatic effect in the future. Really, if there is no big deal leaving that diary for anyone else to read why didn't the Dr. just read it himself? Spoilers, right, but if spoilers are that bad, then why leave them around for someone else to mess with? Someone who may not understand the potential danger of messing with future events.

    If I remember old episodes correctly, the Dr. would often work with some locals involved with the situation, then leave. Now it seems everyone the Dr. works with must be a companion or have some other close tie to the Dr. Bring back Rose, but I hope it is for a good reason, and not just for the drama of bringing back a loved character.

    My little theory is that with the Time Lords gone, the Dr. is the top dog, and they need to build up companions to be equal partners, instead of just travel partners. I have a feeling that Rose is going to turn out to have done several "impossible" things, besides traveling between alternate realities.

    Overall I thought this 2 part episode was enjoyable to watch. I think the River Song relationship was for drama, and it did not really add to the story for me she could have just as easily been a 1 time character. And Dona crying is getting a bit boring. I like Dona but do they really need to make her cry every other episode. Did the partners cry this much in previous years? I don't really recall it seeming this often.

    Oh well, can't wait for the new episode.


    You offer some good observations here. Thing is, though, had RTD not purposely taken the route you speak of, we wouldn't be watching the show again as we speak. Classic-Who fell short of the times in the late JNT era, and despite its charm still being there in some capacity, it wasn't in touch with mass audiences any longer - just the devoted cult that embraced it, regardless. In order for the series to return and succeed all over again, the formula had to be re-written to an extent, while remaining faithful to the roots of what it still was. I think they've managed to do that, more or less.

    The Earth-anchor wears ever thin, yes - but we've been patient and the last two years have proven more fruitful in distancing that device to some extent, opposed to the first two years since the show returned. They needed time to re-introduce the themes, the character, the mythology. Now it's proven successful, so they seem more willing to take a few risks since people are proven to be paying attention again. And by people, I mean a potential wide viewing audience - not just the devoted fans.

    Yes, the new show is certainly a much more emotional affair, though, when compared to the classic years. But I think that has insured its success. Had it been the same quirky series we all fell in love with years ago and nothing more or fundamentally challenging on any level, it would've likely already fell before the axe yet again. Television shows don't last long these days when they don't take flight almost immediately - no new series is hardly ever given a chance to "find its audience" anymore. If new-Who hadn't secured it's success almost immediately thanks to this new set of aesthetics in tow, we'd be griping all over again that the series had come and gone once more.

    Beefing up the companion's role has given the average viewer a constant foothold in the series. It's who they identify with. It's why the families get pulled in - to make it fill that role for people who see themselves in that potential position in relation to the events of each story and how they perceive them in contrast to their own life and the people in it. For the rest of us who've followed the series for years and years, the series is, and will forever be, about the Doctor - and nothing else. The balance here is the trade-off for what has made this new incarnation so successful - and why it has lasted 4 years (and counting) strong.

    Human Biological Metacrisis = Bite Me, RTD.
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     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 07:45 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Sabalon]
    Simple really, well sorta. Lets take it read that River Song is 45 during this story (Alex Kingston's age). Lets also assume the Doctor is 942 - just to humor Douglass Adams.

    Now, for all of Rivers adventures to happen with the Doctor, they have to happen in her personal past and the Doctors personal future. So, she may have met the Doctor for the first time when she was 36 and he was 987. So that gives her 9 years of memories and adventures in her timeline with the Doctor.

    She said something in the first episode about knowing it was not going to be easy with a time traveller, so perhaps the Doc had was 1024 the second time they met, and her still 36. Then the third time, she was 37 and he could have been 993. As he put it "Things don't always happen to me in the right sequence."


    And as he continued on from that sentence...
    "Especially weddings. I'm rubbish at weddings. Especially my own."

    I guess Moff was already planning ahead for River Song. Smile


    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Tuesday, June 10 2008 @ 09:27 PM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Linquel]
    And as he continued on from that sentence...
    "Especially weddings. I'm rubbish at weddings. Especially my own."
    I guess Moff was already planning ahead for River Song. Smile


    And they played that during the confidential as well. Hmm...

    As for the book being left in the library, well, anyone that tries to sneak in and grab it will be shadow meat so perhaps he thought that was safe Smile

    As for the overall format difference. I can take the Earth stories to a degree. However, after a while it reminds me of ER (even without Alex). I used to watch it for a bit, but then every week it was some catastrophe hitting Chicago - flood, snow, tornado, explosion, hostage situation, aliens, etc... Same thing with the Earth stories. Just how many times can one planet be invaded in the early 21st century? That was one great thing about School Reunion - yes, there was an invasion, but of limited scope, not a worldwide phenomenon. Same with "Love and Monsters" and "Blink".

    Also, a few semi-future Earth stories may help round it out, like in "Fear Her". It's either contemporary, or late 19th century/early 20th for the most part.

    Now that part aside, yes it is a lot more of a drama now than it has been in the past; to me, since the Davison era. This is great because the quality of the companions is way up - they are people with backgrounds, foibles, etc... not just someone to scream and say "What's that Doctor?". What suffers because of that is the story somewhat. A lot more time is spent making you care about the people involved, that the sci-fi part of the episode usually just rushes by. They have to introduce a concept, make you get into it, and generally resolve it all in about 45 minutes. It just feels way too rushed. One of my favorite stories was Inferno - it had a great mix of everything. It was also heading up there to three hours long! That just won't fly today. We can't pay attention that long, or at least the casual viewer won't. Like Will said, it would have stayed a cult thing if only a handful of people bothered catching it. Kinda like Lost, you can't just tune in halfway through an understand where the story is.

    They seemed to start to recognize this late in the JNT reign when they went to the two 45 minute stories instead of 4 20+ minute stories - very similar to our two parters. My preference would be to have some more two parters with some one parters mixed in,and maybe bump it up to 16 episodes a season. I think it would be a good compromise and allow for some more comprehensive story telling instead of "run, sonic, run, save world"

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     Monday, June 16 2008 @ 12:16 AM EDT
    [Quote  by:  Magpie]So... do you think Donna wound up pocketing the book? Or has it been left there for some baddie to find? It's not the sort of thing I'd expect The Doctor to leave laying around considering the danger it might cause.


    Well, from the perspective of anyone who would find that book, the events contained in it are likely to have already happened, so it's not like any non-time traveler could use it to "change history" or create some paradox.

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