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     Home »  Torchwood - Series 1 »  Torchwood: (E04) Cyberwoman
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    Torchwood: (E04) Cyberwoman Views: 4735
     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 06:54 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  Louis]

    Yeah, it is the whole immortality thing they have thrust on him. Knowing he can not die has dulled life for him. There is no sense of risk or thrill. Nothing excites him as it used to previously...

    The only problem is that it is not just Jack feeling this, it is us, in the audience feeling the same thing about the character... He lost everything that made him so compelling in the first place.

    Personally, I don't think I would have such a problem with not being able to die... But I guess I will never know. But you know what they say about being granted immortality: "To lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose." Wink

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Just re-watched the episode on BBC2.

    One thought I had about Captain Jack was - suppose 'he can't die' is not that at all - suppose (and he won't know this) that he has via the Tardis been given the 'twelve re-genreations' of a Time Lord?

    He lost one life in the 51st C, he lost one in Episode 1, he lost two in this 4th episode and because he 'knows he can't die' must mean he's lost it once again before the series openned - maybe he did toss himself off the high building we see him on.

    So he could have yused up 5 or more of his re-generations already but not being a Gallifreyan he doesn't change his appearance each time.

    By the time he finds the Doctor he may be cured - ie. on his last life anyway.

    If you think I'm talking rubbish then in my defence I'm half-way through a bottle of red wine! Eek!

    What do you all think?

    Cheers, daveac


    At this point, I think that's a more intellegent supposition than the writers for the show have ever had.

    Heath Holland
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     Wednesday, November 08 2006 @ 10:20 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  hdutch007]
    [Quote  by:  daveac]
    [Quote  by:  Louis]

    Yeah, it is the whole immortality thing they have thrust on him. Knowing he can not die has dulled life for him. There is no sense of risk or thrill. Nothing excites him as it used to previously...

    The only problem is that it is not just Jack feeling this, it is us, in the audience feeling the same thing about the character... He lost everything that made him so compelling in the first place.

    Personally, I don't think I would have such a problem with not being able to die... But I guess I will never know. But you know what they say about being granted immortality: "To lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose." Wink

    Cheers,
    Louis


    Just re-watched the episode on BBC2.

    One thought I had about Captain Jack was - suppose 'he can't die' is not that at all - suppose (and he won't know this) that he has via the Tardis been given the 'twelve re-genreations' of a Time Lord?

    He lost one life in the 51st C, he lost one in Episode 1, he lost two in this 4th episode and because he 'knows he can't die' must mean he's lost it once again before the series openned - maybe he did toss himself off the high building we see him on.

    So he could have yused up 5 or more of his re-generations already but not being a Gallifreyan he doesn't change his appearance each time.

    By the time he finds the Doctor he may be cured - ie. on his last life anyway.

    If you think I'm talking rubbish then in my defence I'm half-way through a bottle of red wine! Eek!

    What do you all think?

    Cheers, daveac


    At this point, I think that's a more intellegent supposition than the writers for the show have ever had.


    The worst part of it is, this may not be that far off the mark. I remember reading (can't remember where) that with the number of regenerations left to the Doctor they (the powers that be) are thinking of giving us a "Son of Doctor Who" solution. If this is true Rolling Eyes and I hope it isn't then think on this. Jack said in episode 1 that he has been pregnant before (it's there when he is talking about the estrogen in our water cycle). What if he is with the Doctor's Child Eek! ? Who knows what the fetus might do to protect the body. And who knows, maby Rose's interference in the events of "The Parting of the Ways" may have caused a pregnancy Eek! . I hope this is just a paronid thought that was brought forward by someone else's (hopefully) good bottle of red. But I wouldn't put it past the producers at this point. Eek!

    I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologist.
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     Thursday, November 09 2006 @ 05:06 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley] they (the powers that be) are thinking of giving us a "Son of Doctor Who" solution. If this is true Rolling Eyes and I hope it isn't then think on this. Jack said in episode 1 that he has been pregnant before (it's there when he is talking about the estrogen in our water cycle). What if he is with the Doctor's Child Eek! ? Who knows what the fetus might do to protect the body. And who knows, maby Rose's interference in the events of "The Parting of the Ways" may have caused a pregnancy Eek! . I hope this is just a paronid thought that was brought forward by someone else's (hopefully) good bottle of red. But I wouldn't put it past the producers at this point. Eek!


    That is a terrifying thought. Cry

    "Son of Doctor Who" - a new pansexual TimeLord sprung from the Doctor and Rose and incubated inside Jack, shagging his way across the Universe! I wouldn't worry except RTD is probably nuts enough to think that would work!

    Would that mean that Rose could regenerate too?

    I don't really care if Torchwood is naff, but I hope somebody at BBC Wales would have the sense to say "for God's sake, NO!" and wrestle him to the ground if he starts on that story arc for Doctor Who! We managed to ignore the "half-human" gaff from the 1996 tv movie, but I don't think we could ignore that one!

    Probably panicking needlessly though - RTD says he couldn't kill off Rose as "we love her so much" (his words) so hopefully he couldn't kill off the Doctor either.

    Stop scaring me!

    If half the art of survival is running away, the other half is knowing when to keep a straight face.
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     Thursday, November 09 2006 @ 06:58 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  old china]
    [Quote  by:  merlin_mccarley] I think the Swis Army tool is going to figure into several stories (they spent too much money on that peice of stainless steel to use it just once Wink ).


    So it's a kind of Sonic Screwdriver then!


    That's what I was thinking. And we all know Jack likes things to be "a little more sonic."

    My main complaint about the show was that the snogging, which has its place in context, had no context in this episode. I hope RTD gets over his tencency to put those things in for fun.

    I recall defendning the show's language in eps 1 and 2 because that's how people really speak. But in real situations as presented in "Cyberwoman" (and I also agree "The Trouble with Lisa" might have been a better non-spoiler title) did NOT call for snogging in any way.

    Jack and Ianto, that was obviously mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, though it didn't appear that Ianto was in that much danger of dying due to not breathing. I do not buy into any theory that Jack can resurrect people with a kiss... but I guess the jury will be out on that until we get an explanation in-show.

    My main issue with this one is Jack. He lost it. He had absolutely no control over his people except through fear. That's not a leader, that's a maniac.

    They need to show that people follow Jack out of loyalty, not out of fear.

    Sean.

    One solid hope is worth a cartload of uncertainties.
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     Thursday, November 09 2006 @ 09:59 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  seanhuxter]

    My main complaint about the show was that the snogging, which has its place in context, had no context in this episode. I hope RTD gets over his tencency to put those things in for fun.

    I recall defendning the show's language in eps 1 and 2 because that's how people really speak. But in real situations as presented in "Cyberwoman" (and I also agree "The Trouble with Lisa" might have been a better non-spoiler title) did NOT call for snogging in any way.




    I admit it. I like Torchwood for partly salacious reasons!

    I say more snogging and more cute men! I like that everyone can snog everyone else. Post-watershed stuff is fine with me, even if it's gratuitous it's at least making me laugh. I mean, it's silly but who could take a show about robot ladies fighting pterodactyls seriously? (sorry to offend anybody who does! LoLSmile))

    So I find the "anything-goes" aspect refreshing. This way you can never really know what chemistry interaction is going to happen between anyone at any given time and that's good tv. I'm also tired of sci fi that thinks straight girls aren't watching - and at least with Torchwood I reckon everybody is going to get to see a little bit of the "nudge nudge wink wink" that suits them.

    I can't wait till Christmas so I can have some wholesome Doctor Who tv viewing to balance me outWink

    If Worzel Gummidge and the Third Doctor had a fist fight - who would win?
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     Saturday, November 11 2006 @ 08:58 PM EST
    This is where I meant to post it.

    Just finished watching Cyberwoman. Haven't read any of the posts here yet, but just wanted to say one thing...

    A top secret alien hunting organization beyond governments has basketball backboards made up with their name and logo???

    After watching Cyberwoman, my wife wanted to see some of the Doctor Who eps with Captain Jack again, so we watched a few of them again. In episode 1 of Torchwood, when Gwen gets the report from her coworker that Captain Jack failed to report for duty one day back during WWII do you think they were referring to him going off with the Doctor after Doctor Dances? Or are they trying to establish that Captain Jack was originally from that time period and maybe was taken to the 51st century and recruited as a time agent prior to his losing his memory and going off on his own?

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Saturday, November 11 2006 @ 09:19 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  Linquel] This is where I meant to post it.

    Just finished watching Cyberwoman. Haven't read any of the posts here yet, but just wanted to say one thing...

    A top secret alien hunting organization beyond governments has basketball backboards made up with their name and logo???



    Yes, I noticed the same thing! Their name and/or logo is everywhere and on everything. I also noticed in the previous episode, that their logo were on the ear protection headphones at the shooting range when Jack instructs Gwen on shooting a pistol.

    Perhaps in the next episode we will discover that they have a big blimp with "Torchwood" all lit up on it which is parked over the Millennium Fountain (whatever it is called) in Cardiff Bay above their headquarters. Twisted Evil


    [Quote  by:  Linquel]
    After watching Cyberwoman, my wife wanted to see some of the Doctor Who eps with Captain Jack again, so we watched a few of them again. In episode 1 of Torchwood, when Gwen gets the report from her coworker that Captain Jack failed to report for duty one day back during WWII do you think they were referring to him going off with the Doctor after Doctor Dances? Or are they trying to establish that Captain Jack was originally from that time period and maybe was taken to the 51st century and recruited as a time agent prior to his losing his memory and going off on his own?


    When I first saw that reference in Torchwood I was thinking the same thing -- that perhaps they were inferring that Jack originally came from the WWII period and perhaps was transplanted to the 51st century. I guess it could mean either or at this point. I didn't think he was on Earth for that long to really get himself so established during The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances except for the fact that he made at least one friend. But I guess he used his own psychic paper to get himself established there in the military, and hence perhaps there was a record of him gone missing when he vanished with the Doctor and Rose.

    Cheers,
    Louis

    ☛ Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LouisTrapani ♥ ♥
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     Saturday, November 11 2006 @ 11:45 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    DS9 did have lower ratings on aggregate than TNG, but there was different math being used to calculate later seasons of DS9 than the earlier ones, to the extent that the aggregate ratings for the whole run of DS9 versus those of TNG aren't compatible. (TNG always got to count the repeat broadcast in a week's ratings, DS9 didn't in later seasons.) In the earlier seasons, you have to throw in the fact that DS9 was competing with TNG. Where TNG fully enjoyed the novelty of being the only syndicated SF show for the majority of its run, DS9 was in the shadow of TNG up until season 3. After that, it was still left with the direct competition of Babylon 5 and others. Despite lower absolute ratings than TNG, it nevertheless generally was the highest rated syndicated show overall, week in and week out, just like its predecessor. Among adults 18-49 and 25-54, it was, for every single episode, the #1 syndicated first-run show, of any genre, in America.


    I'm working my way through the posts, and I couldn't resist jumping into this sci-fi tangent. I totally agree with Darth. I'll add an additional thing that annoyed me from a Chicago perspective. TNG was on a relatively obscure UHF channel [50] and so was very consistant in when it aired. DS9 was on WGN [9] which is the channel Cubs games air on, so DS9 was constantly getting pre-empted or rescheduled to other times. It was virtually impossible to regularly catch the program, and to this day I haven't seen the final episodes.

    [Quote  by:  DarthSkeptical]
    A better measure of its relative worth may be its DVD sales rankings on Amazon. Now that you have a situation where every single scrap of the ST archives is available for individual purchase (well, okay, in two weeks the Animated Series comes out for the first time on DVD), we're in a pretty good position to see the relative popularity of each part of the franchise. Though the original series is still effectively king of the hill, and TNG is the most popular modern era show, DS9 is a strong second. Voyager is the real dog of the lot, with its output being well behind even lowly Enterprise. DS9 sales have been consistently similar to TNG. In a head-to-head comparison, Season 7 of both series have been in the top 10 of ST sales for months, in a virtual dead heat.


    I still can't get over how well Trek DVDs sell, because I for one think they are outrageously priced. It seems like the studio figures Trek fans will pay any price for the shows and mark it up deliberately. A season of Trek on DVD sells for three times the cost of a season of Buffy. X-Files DVDs were also priced way high, and only recently the studio seems to be re-issuing them at a more reasonable price.

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Sunday, November 12 2006 @ 12:16 AM EST
    Ok, I finished reading through everyone else's posts. It looks like the split is about 70-30 [disliked to liked]. I'm in the former group. As much as I like the cybermen, this story was just all over the place. I couldn't keep track of Lisa's motivations from scene to scene...cyber-repopulation? Love for Ianto? Her outfit was just over the threshold of absurdity...especially the silvery rubber thing that went around her navel. I thought Ianto should have been smacked down and locked in the brig as soon as the shit started hitting the fan. Owen and Gwen snogging while hiding from Lisa was ridiculous, and not just because Owen is one creepy-looking dude. And is it just me or were the CGI cyberfication tools looking a little less spectacular this time? They looked a little more stop-motion-animation than before. And as I mentioned in my previous post, I just can't get around the fact that this is supposed to be a high-tech super-secret global organization and they have their name and logo plastered everywhere and announce it to everyone. "Hi, it's Gwen from Torchwood." They should all be running around with field jackets like the police or FBI wear but instead of FBI written in big white letters on the back they can say "TORCHWOOD...(don't ask)".

    I keep hoping the show is going to get into its groove, but I'm starting to think it's not going to happen.

    I'm going "Full Circle" and putting my avatar back to what it was when I first joined. :)
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     Sunday, November 12 2006 @ 08:04 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  Louis] Perhaps in the next episode we will discover that they have a big blimp with "Torchwood" all lit up on it which is parked over the Millennium Fountain (whatever it is called) in Cardiff Bay above their headquarters. Twisted Evil


    Louis, that's just being silly. Evil

    As you well know, the Torchwood blimp is parked under the Millenium Stadium and only gets used during season finales, when the entire pitch has to slide back during an England v Wales Rugby World Cup final and all the fans and the television audiences around the world have to watch in awe as it rises up into the sky. The only way to get access to its hanger is by going into the Torchwood Megastore next door and asking the assistant (who is really a Torchwood operative in disguise) for the "special edition pizza-girl action figure with the screw-top head".

    (in the meantime, they'll just have to settle for using the special Torchwood(TM) 300ft Yacht which is parked much closer, in the bay just down the end of the road).

    Thinking about it, this does remind me of the 80's TV series Beauty and the Beast, which had the heroes living in a secret underground base in New York's Central Park - the entrance of which was lit up brighter than the Christmas tree outside Macey's - and yet no-one ever stumbled across it.

    Ahh well, never mind. On with episode 5 I guess.

    Abersoch

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     Sunday, November 12 2006 @ 08:42 AM EST
    [Quote  by:  Linquel] A top secret alien hunting organization beyond governments has basketball backboards made up with their name and logo???


    Am I the only one who likes the customised Basketball hoop?... i'll tell you for why.

    It looks to me like it was knocked up by Jack from one of the Torchwood ident boards scattered around the place on the walls. They were in the Torchwood One staircases and by the doors (noticed on a re-watch of doomsday). I like to think that the basketball hoop shows a little bit of the rebel in Jack i.e. he doesn't care about the actual JOB of working for Torchwood, and that in fact the only thing about Torchwood that he likes is that (a) it's a means to an end (meeting up with the Doctor again, staying on top of the alien tech loop, keep abreast of the 'everything changes' situation) and that (b) he gets to be all cool and secret and flap about in a nice coat and shades (and get paid for it...interesting question, do they get paid?).

    Turning the Torchwood ident signs into a basket ball hoop smacks of 'i don't care about the organisation'. It reminds me that they are in Cardiff, and Cardiff has a whole anti-London thing going on that I love: A 'we don't care what's happening in London because they don't seem to care about us' kind of vibe.

    To sum up: the customised Torchwood Basket Ball hoop is a two-fingers up to the system. It shows that no one is really in charge or control of what these people are doing, and that deep down maybe Jack is still the rebel we love.


    Or am I reading into a prop too much?

    I'll get my coat.

    *********************************************************** "Rubber Soles - Swear by them!"
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     Sunday, November 12 2006 @ 06:18 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  Linquel]
    I keep hoping the show is going to get into its groove, but I'm starting to think it's not going to happen.


    It has with Episode 5

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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     Sunday, November 12 2006 @ 06:22 PM EST
    [Quote  by:  Linquel]

    After watching Cyberwoman,?


    I think it's possible that this episode was the first one they made.

    Cheers, daveac

    daveac on blip.tv, TalkShoe, iTunes, LiveVideo, uStream, GE, Sci-Fi, DWO, DS & WTA, Dave C on WLP, cooperda on AVF, dac100 on YouTube & PB, dac on Tiscali
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