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  • The Eleven Doctors Special for Children In Need?   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Hmmm. Who wrote the last two multi-Doctor charity specials? A chap by the name of Moffat. 

    Hmmm. A BBC denial. Doesn't that mean it's true?

    With the state of journalism in this day and age, it is hard to judge whether there even is a kernel of truth to this story. 

  • 'Doctor Who' Documentary   5 years 14 weeks ago

    I didn't see the related story the Louis reported earlier:

    here's the link to his story:

    http://gallifreyanembassy.org/vortex/?q=node/247

  • The Eleven Doctors Special for Children In Need?   5 years 14 weeks ago

    This smells fishy to me.  Oh wait it is from the mirror? That explains it!!

  • The Eleven Doctors Special for Children In Need?   5 years 14 weeks ago

    While the story sounds good we get a report from digital spy discounting the story:

     

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a161598/bbc-denies-doctor-who-reunion-reports.html

     

    Meanwhile the is a story on the official 'Doctor Who' site that reports Mark Gattis is doing a documentary on the show:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/news/latest/090623_news_01

     

    ...and the good thing is - it's not region-locked:

    here is a link to the show:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00l59rk

     

    enjoy.

  • Doctor Who Novelisations   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Don't forget to listen to the radio programme too!

    I have very fond memories of all of these books - and running to the local library in Carshalton every other day to get more books! Its how I discovered all the old stories, after finding the show on TV and I loved every single one of them (except for THE MUTANTS for some reason - it was always heavy going, but I loved the cover!). The Chris Achelios covers and the memories of Terrance Dicks' prose always make me smile!

    (Of course, they lead me to view several of the episode with rose-colored glasses! THE INVASION OF TIME was so much fun as a book, and I loved the chase all over the TARDIS, but it was such a disappointment when I actually saw it!)

     

  • The Eleven Doctors Special for Children In Need?   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Isn't this just exactly the same story that they ran this time last year (basically word for word!) except that this time Matt Smith is in it?

    Unconfirmed? Total nonsense if you ask me!!!!!

    (Although, I suspect that the 3rd treat that RTD has promised will be a pretty cool Children in Need thing!)

  • CIA Info & Updates   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Won't make it again next week (don't think I've ever missed CIA three weeks straight)

    Will be back for the week after that (the TV Series Finales one)

  • CIA Info & Updates   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Sorry not to get a reminder for CIA - Ian and I were sorting out a little announcement to make on the show but before recording.

    Next week we will repeat during the recording.

    The CIA - Episode 95 'Bring a book - Sci-Fi, Horror, Cult, Comic book - and tell us why we should read ourselves. Plus a final go at the Wizard list - lose 3 - add 3'

    We only did the first part - so lose 3 add 3 will be done after the main topic 'The Man behind the curtain' Special Effects


    Cheers, daveac

  • Doctor Who Novelisations   5 years 14 weeks ago

    7 Days left to listen to this as of today (June 23, 2009) 30 minutes

    Mark Gatiss, Doctor Who writer and fanatic, explores the hugely popular Doctor Who novelisations of the 1970s and 80s, published by Target books. Featuring some of the best excerpts from the books and interviews with publishers, house writers, illustrators and the actors whose adventures the books tirelessly depicted.

    In an age before DVD and video, the Target book series of Doctor Who fiction was conceived as the chance for children to 'keep' and revisit classic Doctor Who. They were marketed as such, written in a highly visual house style. Descriptive passages did the work of the TV camera and the scripts were more or less faithfully reproduced as dialogue.

    The books were as close to the experience of watching as possible, and were adored by a generation of children who grew up transfixed by the classic BBC series. Target Doctor Who books became a children's publishing phenomenon - they sold over 13 million copies worldwide. From 1973 until 1994, the Target Doctor Who paperbacks were a mainstay of the publishing world.

    A Brook Lapping production for BBC Radio 4.

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago

     

    Zoe 11                       - K9 8                         - Mickey 2
    - Ian 12                        - Liz 8                           
    - Barbara 12                 - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 8
    - Vicki 8                       - Jo Grant 13                - Tegan 8           Donna 12 (+1)
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 12            - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       Leela 13                   - Ace  7 (-2) 

    - Jamie 15                    - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

     

    __________________________________________________________________________

     

    29: Adric

    30. Susan
    31: Grace
    32: Dodo
    33: Mel

     

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Zoe 11                       - K9 8                         - Mickey 2
    - Ian 12                        - Liz 8                           
    - Barbara 12                 - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 8 (+1)
    - Vicki 8                       - Jo Grant 13                - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 12            - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       Leela 13                   - Ace  9 (+1) 

    - Jamie 15                    - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

    __________________________________________________________________________

     

    29: Adric (-2)

    30. Susan
    31: Grace
    32: Dodo
    33: Mel

     

  • The "Checkout Line" Promo   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Louis, I loved the skit too! Seriously, if you ever need an additional voice or whatnot - I'd be more than happy to help!

  • Doctor Who is now being made in HD. Do you have a HDTV?   5 years 14 weeks ago

    No HD for me yet, but I do have CVI (component video input = RGB) which looks incredibly awesome. Nowhere near HD, but way better than standard definition.

  • CASTROVALVA   5 years 14 weeks ago
    1

    1

    Well that was fun. Peter's very good in this episode, finding his way. I still think it might have been better or at least made FOUR TO DOOMSDAY better if they filmed this first. I mean and I'll discuss this later maybe, in FOUR TO DOOMSDAY they were all at each other's throats wehreas in LOGOPOLIS and by the end of CASTROVALVA, they were pretty much a well oiled machine although to be fair, Adric hadn't settled in with the new Doctor so maybe FOUR was just trying to cause some friction between the foursome...badly. They brought in the whole Adric is jealous thing and that's maybe why they can explain away his acting like a prat, brat, moron in that. I mean here he is the main traveler with the Doctor and then this new Doctor comes along and seems much more interested in the girls than in him. I guess a teen would be miffed. In addition, other theories abound as to why the Doctor ignored him in favor of the girls...was he trying to prove something to himself and everyone else? Or was he just too hetero as David Tennant would have us believe, to deal with a 15 or 16 year old boy. It was fine enough for him preNyssa and Tegan and in fact...well more on that later...

    In any event, making Adric the prime target is okay but in fact, it is the start of "let's treat this character badly" by the writers, actors, and characters. And it's a wasted chance to make something really great out of Adric. But even all that can't really stop him. Here, Matthew does a good job being the wraith image of Adric and someone said that he obvisouly hangs to the left but I can't see anything really.

    What's all this crap about Tegan being the coordinator...she could'n't coordinate a one car funeral. And what's all this shitola about Nyssa being this big science person? She was handing out flowers to Melkur two storise ago and deigning to Adric in both her previous stories. Give me a break. In an effort to squeeze more out of his female companions, someone, JNT? Bidmead? gives them more to do but making the TARDIS travelers more like a crew...is that a good idea? Maybe trying to sell it to the US made them think they should STAR TREK it up. Bad move.

    Davison, as mentioned is good. He imbibes the new Doctor, for a few moments with a calm not seen before...or even from him later on. He's friendly enough and picks his uniform...which I'm not sure really works. A note about when I first saw this. I was just so happy to see this...to be seeing this because back in the 1980s, PBS had pleadge drives to make u think that you'd never see this unless you gave large sums of money in donation to the station. I consquently thought I'd never see all of Davison...or the FIVE DOCTORS which the US got BEFORE England! Anyway I was so happy to see these stories which I had been reading about months or even a year before they came here in FANTASY EMPIRE and STARLOG that I was overjoyed to see them. Davison does a good impression of Pertwee,Hartnell, Tom Baker, and Troughton. He also does in pain or "gotten to" really well. When he first is brought into the console room, he does a very similar wide eyed move VERY similar to Hartnell just as he's being rescued from the Cybership and brought back to the TARDIS console room just before he regenerates. It might even be the same mugging he does that Hartnell did!  

    The Zero Room: it really works until the whole floating effect ruins it. It seemed calm enough and one could almost smell the roses...again the floating is a nice idea but the effect is one of the poorest I've ever seen in DW...in fact, throughout all of the Tom Baker time in the show I don't think anything matches up in awfulness.

    Tegan in the console room: I don't know whether to be disturbed by her bits or charmed. At times, sometimes within moments, she can annoy and irritate but seconds later, she's charming and witty and funny and sensitive and Fielding almost but not quite pulls it off. Nyssa just seems like a know it all  and yet at times there's real warmth there such as when she tries to calm Tegan down, "None of knows what's happening to the Doctor..."

    Adric once again distracts police or guards to help the feeble minded (Tegan, Nyssa) get away and in foreshadowing, at the sacrifice of himself.

    Ainley is not as good as he was in the previous story but he's not got much to do yet in this ep or this story but he's sort of quickly becomes the man in black that ties girls to railroad tracks or young teens to spider webs that are supposed to be sticking through his body but even that effect is not realized well. Matthew does a good job of being in pain, probably better than Davison does.

    Chris Bidmead wanted  to put ideas in the show and clearly he has and some original thought provoking ones, too. That said, I don't think the science he puts into the galaxy creation is really correct. Inrush of  hydrogen? Is that how it really happened? Whatever, it makes a great threat and this time, the end of the world we are watching seems terribly urgent unlike in KEEPER of TRAKEN's windstorm. The lipstick is melting? The cliffhanger is sutiably but a bit overly dramatic. Still, not the poorest cliffhanger and at least they still had good cliffhangers. I liike that we saw more of the TARDIS and while it makes more sense than the rooms in INVASION OF TIME I prefer the differences of INVASION OF TIME's TARDIS rooms than the same static roundel bearing walls we see here over and over and over....it was less boring in INVASION OF TIME. 

    Despite all my criticisms, I enjoyed this episode and this story overall. I think things were coming together.  Nothing seemed easily solved in this episode or in this story and to me, when I first saw this, I wondered if this was what DW was like all the time, pre Tom Baker.  Certainly for going for three companions, bickering, and a dip right toward the creation of a galaxy they were harking back toward Hartnell's beginnings with EDGE OF DESTRUCTION and the THE UNEARTHLY CHILD before that with three companions.  

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Adric had four. Sudenly in the last post he had two? You minused two and got zero? HOw or where did he lose the other two? Clearly someone's in need of  a mathematical genius!

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago
    Zoe 11                       - K9 8                         - Mickey 2 (-2)
    - Ian 12                        - Liz 8                         - Adric 2   
    - Barbara 12                 - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 7
    - Vicki 8                       - Jo Grant 13                - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 12            - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       - Leela 13                   - Ace  9 (+1) 

    - Jamie 15                    - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

    __________________________________________________________________________

    30. Susan
    31: Grace
    32: Dodo
    33: Mel

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago
    Zoe 11                       - K9 8                         - Mickey 4
    - Ian 12                        - Liz 8                         Adric 2 (-2)  
    - Barbara 12 (+1)          - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 7
    - Vicki 8                       - Jo Grant 13                - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 12            - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       - Leela 13                   - Ace  8

    - Jamie 15                    - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

    __________________________________________________________________________

    30. Susan
    31: Grace
    32: Dodo
    33: Mel

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago
     
    Zoe 11                       - K9 8                         - Mickey 4
    - Ian 12                        - Liz 8                         - Adric 4  
    - Barbara 11                  - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 7
    - Vicki 8                       - Jo Grant 13                - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 12            - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       - Leela 13                   - Ace  8

    - Jamie 15 (+1)             - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

    __________________________________________________________________________

    30. Susan 0 (-2)
    31: Grace
    32: Dodo
    33: Mel

     

  • Doctor Who: Radio Free Skaro   5 years 14 weeks ago

    A new Radio Free Skaro episode!:

    It’s not often that the Three Who Rule spend more than a minute dismissing Torchwood out of hand, much less being interested in a new series of everyone’s tolerated younger, ganglier cousin to Doctor Who. But that strange event is precisely what happened (explained away with string theory and many a complicated equation, most likely), along with some pre Comic Con banter and oh yes, a commentary on The Empty Child.

    Direct download

    Check http://www.radiofreeskaro.com for your Radio Free Skaro needs!

    iTunes users can subscribe at here.

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago
    Susan 2 (-2)                 - Zoe 11                       - K9 8                
    - Ian 12                        - Liz 8                         - Adric 4              - Mickey 4
    - Barbara 11                  - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 7
    - Vicki 8                      - Jo Grant 13                 - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 12            - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       - Leela 13 (+1)             - Ace  8

    - Jamie 14                    - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

    __________________________________________________________________________

    31: Grace
    32: Dodo
    33: Mel

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago

     Susan 4                    - Zoe 11                       - K9 8                
    - Ian 12                      - Liz 8                         Adric 3 (-2) PLUS 1=4      - Mickey 6
    - Barbara 11                  - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 7
    - Vicki 8                      - Jo Grant 13                 - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 14 (+1) -2=12     - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       - Leela 12                   - Ace  7

    - Jamie 14                    - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

    __________________________________________________________________________

  • LOGOPOLIS   5 years 14 weeks ago
    4

    4

     

    A GREAT ENDING! An era ending. Possibly DW will never be this good again. I didn't think this at the time but I should have figuring in the two poor new female companions, the bad acting from both of them and the goofy doofus that sat up at the end. But when I first watched this it was terribly exicting and a great end for Tom's Doctor, saving the whole universe and making a mistake that caused some of it in the first place. The setting was great, the sky looks dark and cloudy at times, the morning over Pharos is appropriate, the Watcher trusts Adric and has a conversastion with him. Love to know what was said. Adric is very sympathetic again as Nyssa watches her homeworld snuffed out (frankly that's karma as the Trakanites seemed to me to be both stupid and devious) but the point is, Adric cared about things.

    Tegan's sort of annoying again and to be honest, having Tegan and Nyssa claim companion status at this point is sort of...dubious at best. They really didn't know the Doctor that long and it's annoying that they seem to act as if they did/do.

    I'm not sure wht games the Master is playing by not taking his TARDIS to the tower, perhaps he wanted alone time with the controls which is what he got. Frankly, while this is much better, the set up reminds me of the first Master ep: a tower, a trap for the Doctor, and the Master. 

    Some say that it's anti climatic for the Tom Doctor to fall off a gantry with a hose but I think it's appropriate (especailly that he's saving the universe he so extensively travled through) and the fight could have gone on longer but it was okay, and having the Master trip over the scarf...then hey what was that Peter's Doctor unravels later on? ...is appropriate and funny and daring to have the Doctor go out that way. I didn't quite get the whole CVE thing. DIdn't the project need to keep running for it to keep working? WOuldn't taking the hose out stop it? Or was there a more permanent solution that didn't iinvolve the Project or the radio tower. And why does the Master seem so happy when he's really lost effectively but...maybe it's the Doctor's death that makes him laugh so or maybe he thinks the Doc will regenerate. At one point on the telescope tower the Master's face is a frozen cardboard cut out! I wondered why but at the time I didn't see that.

    The flashbacks: brilliant. Nowadays tv viewers are so used to flashbacks but back then DW didn't really have very many unlike other 70s tv shows (SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN had over ten minutes of flashbacks once and clip shows---DW almost never did this and never cheated the audience). Not that I think this was a cheat. JNT did another  good move with these flashbacks---he's gatherng up a great track record this JNT and topping off the season in a great fashion. It was nice to see the villains and the companions of the 4th Doctor say goodbye in flashback...and it was giving me goosebumps even the last time I watched it. Just today.

    The revelation that the Watcher is the Doctor may seem old hat now but then...it was just marvelous. Who would have thought that? Amazing. An amazing end and amazing music to follow it all throughout this ep in particular.       

    I also like the "out of time and space" scenes, remensicent of the same type of stuff in THE MIND ROBBER but not as drawn out here. Adric shines in these scenes and does the Doctor stuff here while Nyssa just asks questions and looks upset and maybe even bored.

    A great story and a sad ending for the 4th Doctor but fitting and when i just watched this today, I felt it was the end of the show, for the downhill slide will come, slowly but it will come and it starts right with FOUR TO DOOMSDAY...

    For one thing, I've stated this already but it's important to reiterate it: Tom cared about DW. It really saved his career rather than wreck it. For god's sakes, he was working on a construction site after having done some very big movies. He cared about DW and the series and the character. HE cared about the stories, the other characters and the scripts. He didn't always have the best ideas but sometimes he did and he knew what scripts would work and what wouldn't and I believe producers and writers and directors made careful around him to make stories that made sense, were fairly good, and moved along with proper care and attitude. Once he left, this went downhill and the scripts stunk, rarely made any sense, weren't fairly good, and while there were some very good ones along the way, for the most part, the show dipped into illogical nonsense with only soap opera stuff that could keep any interest and even that was't well done...the emotional stuff went out of it the moment it appeared (witness the Brig's dilemma in MAWDRYN UNDEAD) for stuff that seemed really dumb (Nyssa and Tegan turning old and turning young, something that could have been really well done and scary but that was done as if it wre just an aside and poorly done at that). Davison is no Baker and while I like him, he's not the caring for DW type. I think he tried and I think his ideas were no where near as good as Baker's for the most part. And then where Baker didn't often get his way (a cabbage for a companion which I"m sure was just a joke on his part), Davison got his in one important way (Keep Nyssa and dump Adric or Tegan; too bad it wasn't Tegan). Then Nyssa left, not long after and they kept using Adric replacements in scripts until they got Turlough, one of the worst companions ever and the worst casting ever. I mean I like Strickson but really, do you believe him as a school boy? And for the much touted, "None of his compansions have ever tried to kill him before when starting out," I have two words, "Sara Kingdom" a much better written and realized character. 

    Another thing about LoGOPOLIS is it's amazing to see Adric and Nyssa leave the TARDIS with suce aplomb and giddiness and confidence, ala THE AVENGERS Steed and Mrs Peel. In fact, I'm sure the pair of them could carry on their own show all on their own as juvenile leads. They really shine in their stuff together and away from the Doctor, theyre even more interesting. Can't say the same for Tegan, who's just boring.

     So I guess what I"m saying is that once Tom left the show slipped in quality and that slip would slowly dip so that anyone talented left the show, was ignored (Barbara Clegg), or wasn't used. The dip was as much Eric Saward's fault as much as JNT but both are to blame. What follows isn't a pretty story but at least Davison's era held it together somewhat. Then we got Colin's era (a giant mess in more ways than one even though I like Colin) and the start of McCoy's first season was even worse...a horror show gone horrible. Horribly wrong. It picked up a bit afterward but never fully recovered and also gave us Ace. God help us.    

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago
    Looks like something went wrong there Chase. Just fix it and place my vote
    - Susan 4                    - Zoe 11                       - K9 8                
    - Ian 12                        - Liz 8                         - Adric 4              - Mickey 4 (-2)
    - Barbara 11                  - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 7
    - Vicki 8                      - Jo Grant 13                 - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 12            - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10                      
    Harry 12                   - Peri 10
    - Ben 10                       - Leela 12                   - Ace  8 (+1)

    - Jamie 14                    - Romana I 11             - Rose 12
    Victoria 8                    - Romana II 8             - Captain Jack 9

    __________________________________________________________________________

    31: Grace
    32: Dodo
    33: Mel

  • HURT/HEAL: The COMPANIONS   5 years 14 weeks ago

    Susan 4                    - Zoe 11                       - K9 8                
    - Ian 12                      - Liz 8                         Adric 3 (-2)plus one = FOUR       - Mickey 6
    - Barbara 11                  - The Brigadier 15         - Nyssa 10           - Martha 7
    - Vicki 8                      - Jo Grant 13                 - Tegan 8           Donna 11
    - Stephen 10                 - Sarah Jane 14 (+1) MINUS TWO = 12     - Turlough 8 
    - Polly 10         

  • LOGOPOLIS   5 years 14 weeks ago
    3

    3

     

    Okay Tegan gets a little better here. Tom has what might be his first real scene of comforting someone who's lost a relative, beyond just a casual comment when he tells Tegan about her Aunt's murder. And Janet does a good job here and throughout the episode really, without grating and she does seem to help the Doctor. of course it is Adric who helps the most, helping the Monitor locate the fault and falliable as ever, making at least one mistake.

    Ainley shines as the Master throughout and I've always enjoyed his portrayal. JNT if the DVD text can be believed nixed Ainley's desire to play for laughs so this is ANOTHER good move by JNT to curtail alot of humor coming from the Master. There is some but not a lot and that's a good thing. His desire to have the Doctor's body in KEEPER OF TRAKEN heralds the TV MOVIE and yet here he gets Tremas's body. A creepy villain at least here in this story and his taking over of Nyssa is excellent. He shows real strength here just as the Fourth Doctor shows some real vulnerability ("I'm an ignorant old Doctor and I've made a mistake"). He's done that before and admitted it but here, after so many infalliable stories for him, it's jarring and in a good way for the age old character. Well done to Tom, Ainley, the man who convincingly plays the Monitor, and Fielding and Waterhouse for some strong performances. Even Sutton seems spot on.

    The explanations are more forthcoming. The intonations keep the CVEs open to keep the universe from entropy which it has long passed it. Even the Doctor is suprised by this. And it so fits in with the Master that he does not know it all before he starts his stupid plan...this has been his undoing before as in the tepid CLAWS OF AXOS. And elsewhere I"m sure. He just thinks he can do it all but without all the info.

    The Doctor's chasitzing of the "companions" is funny as its true: he's never really chosen his own company, even Romana. I like how he hurries them into the TARDIS and the cliffhanger is just super. Tom's face of disgust shows how the Doctor feels about shaking hands with the Master.

    The feeling of doom comes from not the Doctor but the falling apart of the planet. A great episode and strong and different. JNT successfully brought back the Master and in a good story with differences from previous Master ones.     

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